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  »  New  Sound Quality and “Electricity”..  The Effects of the "Atmosphere"...  Playback Listening  Forum     1  4711  12-06-2024
10-04-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Warsaw, Poland
Posts 642
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 1801
Post ID: 26368
Reply to: 26354
No luck
Adrian, no luck in finding it. It the cable thread it is not.
I've shown your post to an Australian fellow Martin who knows, among 1000 other things, a big deal about welding so he might have ideas how to weld different metals incl. tungsten. He pulse welds his own cables.


Cheers,
Jarek
10-05-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005
Post #: 1802
Post ID: 26371
Reply to: 26368
Tungsten
You are correct that tungsten must be welded, as it will not wet with commonly available solder. Given the wire gauge and application to electronic circuitry, you might weld to a solderable metal on the ends, but for the use as a speaker wire, I found it simple enough to mechanically clamp the wires -- which is how everyone connects their cables anyway.
Adrian
11-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 219
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 1803
Post ID: 26585
Reply to: 26371
Supercapacitors.
With all the previous talks about batteries, any one tried (or have any idea about) using large/industrial supercapacitors instead, maybe followed by a isolation transformer? I mean the whole "kill dynamics" thing isn't supposedly to happen since supercapacitors are mean to discharge near instantly.

Alex.



Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
12-05-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 386
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 1804
Post ID: 26595
Reply to: 26585
Around 700w
Please help me if you have any experience with PP3000. now I have dedicated AC line (the line is three phase system ,phase 1 and 3 connected to home and phase 2 connected to my audio system) and a good cable replaced the building wire between ac panel and my audio system.
the problem is connecting total 700w rms to PP3000 will decrease the dynamics,PP3000 decrease a-little dynamic range and the image is also a-little smaller. separation of instruments is also affected by PP3000. the PP3000 load indicator does not reach second cell and it means the load is under 700w rms. romy told the PP3000 should be ok at 1/3 power but i do not know why PP3000 can not give me full dynamics at 700w rms?
do you thing changing PP3000 fuse or star wiring of output or changing output cables/sockets/connectors will help?

thank you in advance




www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
12-05-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 219
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 1805
Post ID: 26596
Reply to: 26595
I never seen any PurePower
Hello,

Amir, I have never ever seen a PurePower and I'm far from being a electric engineer, but I'm convinced this "reduce dynamics" thing is at least partially related to the fact the power conditioning device isn't sized to the actual total maximum power consumption of the system, including to cover peaks of the system. In this sense, I would ignore the peak capacity of the power conditioning device and base everything on the "normally" available power.

I think I have posted about it in here before, but since the 1940's or 1950's the advertised power consumption is usually based on the "average use" not the actual total power.[1] This is possible to calculate the total power but I don't remember the math of it but the total maximum power consumption of a 'Class A' amplifier is *several* times more than the output power. IIRC a Class A amplifier at maximum power can reach something between 10...30 times the output power in power consumption.

This is not hard to find about it on the internet, including the math.

[1] there are good reasons for that for products in general but not in advanced audio products.


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
12-05-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005
Post #: 1806
Post ID: 26597
Reply to: 26595
PP3000+ Dynamics

 Amir wrote:
...connecting total 700w rms to PP3000 will decrease the ... dynamic range and the image is also a little smaller...


Amir,


I agree that these effects are typical of power capacity of a device. Although the PP3000+ is rated for 2700W RMS continuous, as with any audio device, nothing is black and white, so there will always be some effect even at lower power levels.


I hope it goes without saying that impedance mismatch should be evaluated in this setup as it may impact power transfer.


Having said this, with my PP3000+, I have not noticed these problems at all. However my unit was upgraded by Damien to use a L5-20R input connection, heavier gauge internal wiring and Furutech output connections. I have no idea if this makes any difference at all -- I do not have a "standard" PP3000+ to compare.


I seem to recall Romy also had some issues, and ultimately had some devices plugged in to his PP2000 and some not. 


Rather than altering the PP3000+, my main suggestion would be to experiment with the devices you use with the PP3000+ to find the best sonic result.


Adrian

12-05-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 219
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 1807
Post ID: 26598
Reply to: 26595
Batteries vs. Supercapactiors
Amir,

just in case you are wondering about what I have said I think supercapacitors are better in this application, and adding to my previous reply, the main practical differences between a battery and a suppercapacitors are:

1 - batteries are quite good in storing electricity but they are rather slow charging/discharging devices, and ever if you can make them charge/discharge fast (think all these turbo charging stuff) they don't like it and so, the battery lifetime will be considerably reduced if you do. Idealistic batteries should be charged/discharged at the slower possible pace to increase (or retain) their maximum life time.

2 - supercapacitors are poor at the storage side,  (IIRC) it loses in average 20% of the stored electricity per day. On the other hand, they are hell good in charging/discharging. A large industrial sized supercapacitor bank can be fully charged in just a few minutes (or rather faster) depending on the power source, with a life time often surpassing 25 years.

That said, I can't really see a reason to use batteries in this application unless you live in a location with intermittent power supply[1]; however, if you need the battery storage capacity for some reason you can yet use hybrid devices...


[1] but if the electricity goes for just a few short moments you probably would not need a batteries, anyway.


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
12-06-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 386
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 1808
Post ID: 26599
Reply to: 26598
Class AB load vs Class A load
Adrian Thank you for helpI think i should 100% agree youDid you compared class ab vs class a power amp when you connect them to pp3000?
xandcgI have read about romy experience with paralleling capacitor with battery but it seems it does not help .I have no idea about what happen if i use super capacitor but 99% of my trial and error had no good result because of audio is not about good theories.For example lifepo4 batteries are faster than opzv but the sound of opzv is better when you connect them to DC to AC inverter.

www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
12-06-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,400
Joined on 05-27-2004
Post #: 1809
Post ID: 26600
Reply to: 26599
It is hard to say anything
,Amir, it is hard to say what is going on. From general prospective what you do does make sense completely. I did not particularly see that any of pp is that I have behave this way. But here where we hit the major problem of PP. We are operating out presumption that when you or anybody else mention company and model number we implied at default performance of a unit. Unfortunately it is not the case  for PP. If it is properly operating unit then it is a great contributor to sound. But it might not be properly operating unit and from what I understand there is no way to diagnose it and I did not see any correlation between quality of the sound and shape of the sine wave. this correlation certainly exist but in case of PP it's might be anything. So you might have just faulty unit which does not do what it's supposed to be doing by design. I have seen the situation get developed from here in three directions. You might take it with the company and I have seen that they help. You might get ignored by the company. And the third option that company will try to help but they have no idea why is the unit doesn't sound correct. I know it does not sound very promising, sorry. I am pretty convinced that if that PP would be able to maintain quality of production then you would see PP in each audio house.

Saying all of it it would be nice to confirm that unit does work fine and you do not do some kind of mistake with the rest of your playback that accidentally give you an impression about PP fault.

So let's come up with some kind of into methodological clear test how's the unit could be tested. You can for instance takes one single unit, some kind of table right there and test only with that. Or you can convert the testing into visual domain and use it just with a high quality TV set. For some people it's easier to verify visual image and to observe blacks darker, colors more saturated and even to be a sound have better bass.

It describe to diagnose anything remotely but I do advocate that a properly operating PP should not be behaving the way how you describe. Saying that I did see many scenario but some people did some ridiculous things,  anticipating good result, so, as I said it is too hard to say anything.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-07-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 386
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 1810
Post ID: 26601
Reply to: 26600
230v version coils get hotter than normal after some years
Romy Thanks
I had 6 pure power (230v version) since 2017 and now i have 4 pure power , the first pp3000 was faulty and it has the same problem that some users reported here (GSC) , the output frequency spectrum of first PP3000 had some extra harmonics (i could hear those harmonics in loudspeaker) and the sound was bad. other 5 pure powers were quite healthy without any extra harmonics (no noise in loudspeaker) and also the sound of those 5 units is very very good.i also connected pp3000 to my TV and the picture quality increased .  
i have connected 300w (total power of system) class A SET tube power amplifier to my pp3000 and the result was perfect.i have connected 400w (total power of system) class A Push pull solidstate power amplifier to my pp3000 and the result was perfect.i have connected 700w (total power of system) class AB (low bias) solidstate power amplifier to my pp3000 and the result was good but not perfect, pp3000 decreased macro dynamic with small margin. i should say totally the sound is far better than wall AC in all respects but the only critic is macro dynamics reduction.    
this PP3000 has been working since 2017 non-stop and the only problem that comes to my mind is the output coils get hotter than normal. i have installed better fans to keep low the coil temperature . it seems the coil of 230v versions are more sensitive (one of my friends had a PP3000 and after a-while the coils burned).
Amir


www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
12-07-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,400
Joined on 05-27-2004
Post #: 1811
Post ID: 26602
Reply to: 26601
Sorry...
Ah, Amir, did you consider ever that amount of pp generators can create a critical mass of them which advertly affects sound? With all seriousness I hope you do not use the bulk of your generators in the same environment at the same time. I imported before and I very much advocates it to have even two PP generators inside the same listening room violates all benefits that a single PP does.  I clearly hear not only my second regenerator plugged anywhere in the house but I even hear if in the same half phase I plug one of those powerful commercial server computers that have digital power supply. From what I observe in audio supply should be just one digital regenerator. More than one make sound very hard and completely locks any silkiness. In fact I do not use my second regenerator at all and it is for a Year's seats in my basement purely as a backup. I do not know what the story was your specific amplifiers. No one knows how the power supply made out grounded and so on....

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-07-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 386
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 1812
Post ID: 26603
Reply to: 26602
Always I use only one pure power
Romy , you are right , pure power affects on wall AC quality, when a pp3000 is connected to wall ac (the TV not connected to PP3000) then the picture quality of my TV decrease. 
allways I use only one pure power 3000 and other pure powers are disconnected from AC (all are off in their boxes).
one month ago I just had a test with three pure power in my room , the building ac is 3 phase (120 degree phase shift) and i connected three PP3000 to three different phase to check the macro dynamics. Pp2000 -> cdplayer/prePp3000 (1) -> left monoblock amplifierPP3000 (2) -> right monoblock amplifier
The sound was not good but the macro dynamics was better.My monoblocks power amplifiers are rated 350w/8ohm and 700w/4ohm. Speaker is 4 ohms. Power amplifier is fully balance .My system does not have earth connector in input AC plugs and all the system is fully disconnected from ground of pure power.


www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
02-26-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 145
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 1813
Post ID: 26715
Reply to: 26603
Last night
While the pure power units are the best I’ve heard at removing ac grunge, they are still not 100% effective. Last night my listening and video session was unbelievable. We had about a foot of very light soft snow during the day. As soon as I turned on the system I knew I was going to be in for a treat. On the video side, the projector was brighter with more color. Audio was about 6 dB louder; things I would normally listen to at -16 dB were turned down to about -22 dB and could hear things like hall air conditioning at the beginning of recordings. Sound stage was wider, deeper, with more ambiance and room feel. Same thing has happened in the past during fluffy snow storm, but not close to what I heard last night, possibly because of the Dannoy’s and Yamaha B2,s. Does not seem to occur with heavy snow or ice storm. A mystery! I live in the country with very little manufacturing within 25 miles, so it wasn't the shutdown of those facilities cleaning the electricity. Think it possibly could be the insulating of the electric lines by the snow hanging on them. Anyway, will see what happens tonight after the snow falls from the lines. Bill
03-02-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 389
Joined on 05-22-2009
Post #: 1814
Post ID: 26718
Reply to: 26715
Bill, I and others have had similar experiences with these units.
Would you be willing to run a fairly easy experiment? Put a pink noise track on repeat and play it overnight at low volume ( i assume you are not sleeping in the same room) for a week. Then listen to a CD that you know well at a time of day that is not optimal in your experience.
03-02-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 145
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 1815
Post ID: 26719
Reply to: 26718
Even better
Try the “AYRE Irrational But Efficacious v. 1.2” cd. Works great to clear up grunge and noise in electronics and speakers. I think it probably acts to demagnetize equipment and soften speaker surrounds. Just need to run it one pass at moderate level.Bill
03-02-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 145
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 1816
Post ID: 26720
Reply to: 26719
By the way
The next day the magic had gone. Oh well, let it snow!
03-02-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 389
Joined on 05-22-2009
Post #: 1817
Post ID: 26721
Reply to: 26719
Bill i'm aware of many break in disks
I can certainly understand if you don't want to run the specific experiment I suggested but it is not a question of not knowing other commercial disks. Also the extended period is crucial for the experiment. But I mean pink noise and only pink noise.
03-10-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 386
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 1818
Post ID: 26725
Reply to: 26721
Tesla Powerwall before Pure Power 3000+
Tesla Battery -> Tesla Inverter -> Purepower 3000 -> Audio System  
 using Tesla powerwall inverter before Pure Power , any experience? any idea?
Thank you in advance

www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
03-10-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 145
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 1819
Post ID: 26726
Reply to: 26725
Better
Better would be to check the DC voltage output of the firewall. If the same as the input voltage of the pure power, a better way to go. Otherwise, how it would sound would be dependent on the quality of the AC output of the inverter.
03-10-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,797
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 1820
Post ID: 26727
Reply to: 26725
Batteries Do More Than Just Clean AC
Amir, I mentioned up the thread that friend Mark has 2 Firewalls in his already-optimised electricity delivery system, and I have heard his hi-fi running off the batteries. IMO, his hi-fi sounds best from grid power, with the batteries "in the loop" but not the sole source of power. Again, he does not use PP, and I would not, either given his best results, so far. I should mention again, he uses 2X 1,200W tube amps. I think the part of this that relates back to you is that the batteries do not just quiet the AC but they affect the sound of the hi-fi in the end. And you will never know about the sound you "would" get; you will have to try it to find out. I hope you will report back if you try it.

Best regards,
Paul S
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   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  196031  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  129447  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  1009872  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Gobel Majestic and Six Subwoofer...  Audio Discussions  Forum     31  301786  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  119328  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  184199  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Nerd Reading Material...  Didital Things  Forum     28  271920  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  88072  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  47521  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  94771  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  33077  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  18687  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  Using and Recharging Batteries...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1917  11452561  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  172027  10-24-2010
  »  New  Sound Quality and “Electricity”..  The Effects of the "Atmosphere"...  Playback Listening  Forum     1  4711  12-06-2024
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