| Search | Login/Register
   Home » Audio Discussions » It’s mad, mad, mad... electricity. (* posts, 25 pages)
  Print Thread | 1st Post |  
Page 92 of 95 (1,885 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 90 91 92 93 94 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  154953  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  93043  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  844348  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  239780  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  97551  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  146032  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Ha! It might have lasted FOREVER!...  Didital Things  Forum     25  199281  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  71301  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  38898  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  74592  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  25416  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  14766  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  To Listen and To Hear Is To Learn...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1884  8566117  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  137780  10-24-2010
03-11-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Lx_
France
Posts 33
Joined on 12-05-2009

Post #: 1821
Post ID: 26728
Reply to: 26727
I am no longer using my PP
This might be a good time to chime in to report that I removed the PP from my system a few weeks ago. I had suspected for a long time that the PP was injecting noise into the system and wanted to remove it to test its effect (or lack thereof in that case).

It turns out that with the PP in my system, micro dynamics are killed and the music flows less and is less relaxing. With the PP in the system, it may seem that macro dynamics are improved. But I believe it is more a question of noise being added, which is perceived as additional volume. Yet since details are lost in noise, I don't think the overall dynamic range is actually improved...

It took some time to do some A/B comparisons, several times, over several sessions/weeks to be absolutely sure.

I know that the PP never truly isolated mains power as I could always here whenever other appliances were plugged in the house. But I had left it in as I thought dynamics were improved somehow. But now I know what the PP takes away, and I don't want to lose that.

In the early days I was very happy with the PP running on batteries only. But I had only around 45 minutes of life when operating from battery, and this dropped as batteries aged. So I almost never used it. And I don't know if on battery, it was killing micro details or not...

So at the moment the PP is back in its box.

And yes it may be that I have a faulty unit, but I am not willing to go through hoops to (maybe) make it work. I sent the unit to the factory several years ago and getting it back was not easy.

And no I do not believe this is a ground loop issue (unless the PP internal design itself adds such a loop) since I have no noise at all currently, and the only difference is that the PP, which was inserted before the audio system into the same socket, is now removed.

Like all devices the PP adds noise (and probably more than most considering what it is), and I am better off without it (no garbage in, no garbage out).

So yes as Paul said, power devices "do not just quiet the AC but they affect the sound of the hi-fi".
03-11-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 347
Joined on 05-22-2009

Post #: 1822
Post ID: 26729
Reply to: 26728
Yes likely malfunctioning
LX
I found with my unit (older model) that noise was associated with malfunctioning. I just use my local tech repair to repair it and swap batteries. Apparently they have no problem doing repairs on it as problems are fixed by them reliably. Their only comment was that they thought the PP poorly designed in terms of internal layout.

PS I would be careful about any digital units plugged in to it as I did notice obvious sonic problems myself when I tried it with a TT controller
07-31-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 254
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1823
Post ID: 26843
Reply to: 26729
Different types of load
---------------------------------------------------   common internet information :
it seems UPS/inverters/ACRegenarators react different to different loads .PSU design affect on load characteristics and not all AC regenerators are good for specific type of load.it means if the AC regenerator not be quite Match for specific PSU then the "more power" will not give us better sound.
            
https://power-backup.ro/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/White_Paper_Power_factor_UPS.pdf"A UPS will be called upon to support different types of load equipment and these may have nonlinear input stages. The compatibility of the UPS output stage (ie, the inverter) with different types of nonlinear load equipment is usually stated in the product documentation. If not, it must be checked with the manufacturer directly. Note that:
  • In cases with high inrush currents or peak currents - eg, motor loads - even the stated range of UPS output power factor does not provide enough detail to determine if the UPS can support the load.

  • With static loads, the UPS specification can be used to determine compliance.

    The rated output power factor of UPS is not an indication of the quality of a UPS or say anything of its performance capability – it is merely used to state the ratio of the maximum active power versus maximum apparent power. Understanding the critical load profile and load input power factor is the key to making a decision how to specify the UPS power.

"--------------------------------------------------
I know pure power 3000 is good for most under 800w systems but finding a AC solution for over 1000w is my challenge.it seems only "higher power" will not give us good result and the PSU design is important for choosing UPS.
the question is do you have any experience with high power UPS like APC or "Victron Energy" or ABB?if there is more please share
thank you
07-31-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 217
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 1824
Post ID: 26844
Reply to: 26843
Just 2 cents.
 Amir wrote:
---------------------------------------------------   common internet information :
it seems UPS/inverters/ACRegenarators react different to different loads .PSU design affect on load characteristics and not all AC regenerators are good for specific type of load.it means if the AC regenerator not be quite Match for specific PSU then the "more power" will not give us better sound.
            
https://power-backup.ro/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/White_Paper_Power_factor_UPS.pdf"A UPS will be called upon to support different types of load equipment and these may have nonlinear input stages. The compatibility of the UPS output stage (ie, the inverter) with different types of nonlinear load equipment is usually stated in the product documentation. If not, it must be checked with the manufacturer directly. Note that:
  • In cases with high inrush currents or peak currents - eg, motor loads - even the stated range of UPS output power factor does not provide enough detail to determine if the UPS can support the load.

  • With static loads, the UPS specification can be used to determine compliance.

    The rated output power factor of UPS is not an indication of the quality of a UPS or say anything of its performance capability – it is merely used to state the ratio of the maximum active power versus maximum apparent power. Understanding the critical load profile and load input power factor is the key to making a decision how to specify the UPS power.

"--------------------------------------------------
I know pure power 3000 is good for most under 800w systems but finding a AC solution for over 1000w is my challenge.it seems only "higher power" will not give us good result and the PSU design is important for choosing UPS.
the question is do you have any experience with high power UPS like APC or "Victron Energy" or ABB?if there is more please share
thank you

I can't tell a lot but APC isn't good except for small home use (and their batteries aren't exactly reliable) - Eaton is solid. In Central America, where power outages are almost a daily thing you see Eaton everywhere. APC have issues syncing with generators that doesn't output a very stable frequency, while Eaton will sync with almost anything.


Victron Energy, I never heard about, and ABB is top quality and also charge in the same way (and unlikely to be interested in small ventures, or ever answer if they already don't know you) --- same for Wärtsilä.


Roughly speaking, AC re-generators use a «rectifier» to convert the electricity to DC and then an «inverter» to convert it back to AC. Add batteries in the middle and you have a UPS.


IMO, if you are looking to spend a good money on it, my advise would be to get a custom made one - using military grade or medical rectifier/inverter. I don't have experience with these companies but I would use a «Supercapacitor UPS»[1] for audio, and I would bet on Phoenix Ultracap to build them.

For a typical «Battery[2] On-Line UPS»,[2] my choice would be RENERA, but in case they were not interested in small projects I would start talking with Bastion.

[1] unless guaranteed uptime was a major requirement.[2] or a hybrid.[3] you need a «on-line», the ones that output from the batteries all the time instead of keeping them as backup power only.



Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
08-01-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 254
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1825
Post ID: 26845
Reply to: 26844
AC quality is the biggest challenge in Audio
yesterday i had a conversation with an engineer who was in UPS industry in Tehran.he told me they install isolation transformer after UPS for better isolation for medical equipments.he told me most industry UPS manufactures produce Class D inverters and some models have output transformer and some models are transformerless.
we know "no high power industry UPS is optimized for Audio" and most of UPS in Audio Industry (like ps audio p20, pure power 3000, stromtank 5000) are low power (under 3000w). 
AC quality is my biggest challenge





08-02-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,437
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1826
Post ID: 26846
Reply to: 26845
"Optimized for Audio"
The way I understand it, power line "regenerators"/noise scrubbers pretty much have to be optimized for a specific load/application, and "off-the-shelf" units are compromized, by comparison. Who actually "optimizes UPS/power scrubbers for audio"? Sure, the sellers SAY their products are audio-centric; but I am not at all convinced of this, or what it really means, anyway, and that includes the Pure Power. Of course, if something "works", then it works. And I'll settle for that every time, back stories nothwithstanding.

Paul S
08-02-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 217
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 1827
Post ID: 26848
Reply to: 26846
Some thoughts...
No idea of who this guy is:




Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
08-03-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 254
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1828
Post ID: 26849
Reply to: 26848
Inverter power calculator
Rectifier in linear audio systems draw high current at short time for charging psu capacitors.
I = Total peak current of an audio system at full load (current draw from wall AC)
V = Voltage of main AC
P = Total Power of Audio System = I x V
Pi = Power of Inverter = 4 x P
Is this right way to calculate needed power of Inverter?

08-08-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 254
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1829
Post ID: 26850
Reply to: 26849
High Power UPS in Market
If i am not mistaken It seems Most High Power UPS in the market like APC or ABB are not good for high dynamic loads (high crest factor like Music signal) and the load transient response of these UPS is not very good at rated power. APC , ABB and ... are designed for IT/Server/Computer rooms not for music systems.Yes i know the subject is complex but I can guess the first step is going for fast load transient response of UPS.


111.68.99.22:8080/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/4897/10%20Muhammad%20Aamir%20Conference%20Paper%20Review%20Uninterruptible%20Power%20Supply%20%28UPS%29%20system.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y


deadbeat control for UPS


The deadbeat controller is an attractive control solution for many applications where the fast transient response is required.

The control strategy is the most important part of all UPS systems. Parameters like THD of the output voltage, dynamic response to the transients and spikes; power factor correction, voltage and current regulation etc. are all dependent on the con- trol strategy applied in the UPS system. Nowadays many modern control techniques have been proposed to provide regulated out- put voltage in all the circumstances. Broadly the control techni- ques can be classified as single control and multi loop control schemes





Pure power 3000 is a successful model for under 800w load and i think If Richard (purepower) improve purepower in both "power" and "transient response" then I can use it for my high power class ab system.


08-08-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 412
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 1830
Post ID: 26851
Reply to: 26850
Load transient response?
I think that the load transient response is 100% in the device power supply - not passed on to the grid. If the amplifier power supply is not properly dimensioned, a UPS could change the sound, but only because of the amplifier deficiency. It would make more sense to solve the problem instead of using a workaround.

In my opinion, the manufacturers of audio devices need to fix the problems in the devices. They certainly are asking for enough money for our expectations to be demanding proper operation in "normal" living conditions.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
08-08-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,437
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1831
Post ID: 26852
Reply to: 26851
Weight, along with "other factors"
Robin, it would indeed be nice if "audio component manufacturers" made and sold gear that delivered consistently good sound when used "in the real world". Not to let anyone off the hook, but many (if not most) audio "manufacturers" buy, market and re-sell finished (or mostly-finished) assemblies (or even the entire compontents) from "jobbers", who might or might not accomodate "unusual" ideas from re-sellers. And something not to be overlooked in any sort of manufacturing is weight. Shipping large batteries, transformers, cases, etc. only works economically for specialty manufacturers. Not to mention the popular notion that one regenerator will serve all the gear in a "typical" audio system. If you believe that, you only need one regenerator to put things aright. Now, what's to stop me from continuing on about using more than one regenerator in a system?


Paul S
08-09-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 412
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 1832
Post ID: 26853
Reply to: 26852
New can of worms
Let us suppose that one manufacturer figures out what the grid is doing and how to solve it - in his own amps/preamps/DAC. Does that help us? Only if we happen to like their products...
As the "high end" market is truly sick, the solution is always to throw (a lot) more money at the issue - without even knowing what he core problem is. The words "transients", digititis, or even "regenerator" are freely used without regard to what is happening.
In my world, a "high end" amplifier has an "excessive" power supply to cover any operating condition without ever running out of steam. In this case the effects of the grid are "additive" - they can pollute if the power supply cannot filter.
I think that there may be something else. The most reports of negative grid effects seem to be from 110V/120V grid fraction - not from Europe with 220-240V.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
08-09-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,437
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1833
Post ID: 26854
Reply to: 26853
Parts and Wholes; Limits and Options
Agree that it seems more people complain about grid power in US. Also agree that a "good" power supply is just that. Still, it seems like a good idea to have a good power supply as part of a "good" amp (or, whatever...). Some of the "best" amps I have heard were/are "good within limits", like my old Wright Sound 2A3. Lamm ML2s "extended the limits". My current Marantz MA9-S2s "extended on those limits". No, they do not do "everything better" than the ML2s. If wishes were fishes...


Paul S
08-10-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 58
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1834
Post ID: 26856
Reply to: 26728
DIY
I know Romy is skeptical of DIYers who want to do everything as cheaply as they can but there are others who do things themselves since they are not satisfied with what the market provides.
I can think of one loudspeaker system, in particular, that defines the best of DIY.
I have never been interested in regenerators since I have convinced myself I have unobtrusive AC plus I had other parts of my system that needed attention first.
I noticed a breathless post in AUDIO ASYLUM (I take a quick look every three months or so) and see that Ric Schultz who is known for being out of breath more often than not is experimenting with DC to AC inverters and giant sized LiFePo batteries.
I have long found Schultz to be an interesting fellow.  I was surprised, but not shocked, when Clark Johnsen had nice things to say about him. He thought his hearing was much better than average and trusted his sonic judgements.
Schultz and a friend are experimenting with a DC to AC inverter rated at "5000 watts" - available at AMAZON for just under one thousand dollars in conjunction with two 200Ah batteries in parallel - he was using LiFePo but I think I would consider using SLA STGM batteries at about half the cost but more than twice the weight.  Not as if I will be moving them about.
Link to inverter - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08XXBVW35/ref=twister_B09H263X7F?_encoding=UTF8&th=1
One can assume the 5000 watts spec is advertising.  The user reviews at AMAZON are very confusing since they have more reviews of cheaper models overwhelming the few for the 5000 watts model.
Nowhere is there an example of the output waveform.  Distortion is listed as equal to or less than 3 percent.
As usual no one has ever heard of the company that makes this thing.  It is a rather substantial 26 pounds.
One would think 400Ah of battery is far more than the PUREPOWER possesses.  One would also tend to think that inverter technology has matured and has reached the point of not much further returns are possible so this could easily far surpass the PUREPOWER's inverter if not be its equal.
One part of me wants to give this a try.  But I would like to hear what those of you who have been thinking about this for years think.
Take care,
I put spaces between paragraphs - oh, well ...
08-11-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,437
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1835
Post ID: 26857
Reply to: 26856
Power vs. Waveform vs. Sound
Rick, as I "remmember", the PP output waveform was a "perfect" squarewave, in terms of shape, but it's pulsed. And I think Romy said it worked with a load of up to 60% of "capacity". Does a different regenerator have to "work the same" to "sound as good"?  Could it work differently and still be acceptable? This seems like a classic case where one will simply have to try it in order to find out how it works/sounds in one's own system. I also like the idea of a big, tough battery, which I suspect would be the first place a "manufacturer" would cut corners. For what it's worth, I have told here that my friend's giant Tesla UPS system, with 2 Tesla batteries, sounds better when the grid is connected. Not sure what this "proves"; but it's kept me from adding a large UPS, dispite his electricity sounds better than mine no matter how his UPS is configured. It should also be noted that his phased, unbroken, dedicated circuits sounded way better than my electricity even before he installed his UPS.


Paul S
08-11-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 58
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1836
Post ID: 26858
Reply to: 26857
More wandering in the AC forest
Thanks for your thoughts.
What is the TESLA battery?  You mean the monster thing they use in the cars?  Now that would be one hell of a battery!
If I do it i will get SLA SGMs - gigantic LiFePo makes me nervous - I try to stay as far away as I can from TESLAs when I encounter them on the road.
Of course, you are right - until you try something all else is speculation - so I probably will give it a try.  My curiosity has the best of me.
The PP outputting a square wave - now that takes me by surprise.
I do not doubt the AC quality that plagues Romy is very real but I have had my suspicions that the PP imprints its own sound - like a garden variety 300B amplifier; makes everything sound the same.  Reading that the output is a pulsed square wave, as if I have any idea of what that would look like, gives me some hope this thing might do something good.
One way or another i will let you know what I think I hear.
Take care
08-11-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,437
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1837
Post ID: 26859
Reply to: 26858
Batteries as Supplies and Buffer
Not sure if the big Tesla Powerwall batteries are Li (I suppose they are), but the best battery I've actually tried is a big dry cell, best because it can (apparently) survive and continue to function indefinitely just sitting there for months on end, while SLAs I've tried have fairly limited lives in this use. My drycell is an Odyssey. The 'scope pics of a PP output are somewhere in this thread; rather, they were. The pulse seems to indicate the converter is a switcher. Plenty of speculation, you'll recall, that the switching was/is at least part of "the umami effect" the PP provides. Anyway , the PP does not put out "a perfect sinewave".

Paul S



08-11-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 58
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1838
Post ID: 26860
Reply to: 26859
Lots of possibilities
I was not aware that there were dry cell batteries in the size needed to do this.
Looked around for some information on the TESLA POWERWALL and it seems to be another mystery - just like the man himself.  (not a fan)
I took the plunge and ordered two of the 200Ah AGM batteries.  To be delivered Sunday and I feel sorry for the AMAZON driver who has to do this.
08-14-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,437
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1839
Post ID: 26861
Reply to: 26860
How to Charge and Keep Charged
Rick, that's a whole lotta battery you're employing! So far, I've gotten the idea you want to run your hi-if system with batteries only via a DC to AC converter, and no AC to DC, meaning, you don't want your system connected to the wall at all. Is this correct?

Just out of curiosity, I googled the price of Powerwall batteries: $11,500 for 1. Big price break, $18,500 for 2. There are "cheaper" dry cell options at 200Ah, but they are still shockingly expensive.


Paul S
08-15-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 58
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1840
Post ID: 26864
Reply to: 26861
It works
That's much more than I am able to spend!
All of the stuff came in yesterday so I spent an arduous day having to rewire my system.
I had been using a 2000VA isolation transformer for each channel.  All that was connected to the two transformers are now powered by the inverter.
The inverter is larger than I imagined it would be.  The batteries are heavy and bulky as one would expect of SGM batteries.
Got it working about eight o'clock.  The first few minutes were dedicated to IT WORKS.  Then I tried to relax and listen for the things I was worried it might do - like limit dynamics.  This is not the case.  There is a greater sense of front to back spaciousness. Cymbals and bells sound more like metal and less like compressed air.  Not that this was revelatory.  The system did respectably before.
It will take much more listening to favorite records to get the full measure of the thing.
The power meter shows it is producing 640 watts at 120 volts.  There is a flicker of plus minus 1 volts AC voltage.  I thought the power usage was going to be much more than that.  I guess it is loafing along.  The case got warm but the fan never turned on.
I do not hear any funny noises either from the inverter or from my speakers.
So far I think it is a success.  Much more time needed to be sure. 
Page 92 of 95 (1,885 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 90 91 92 93 94 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  154953  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  93043  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  844348  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  239780  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  97551  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  146032  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Ha! It might have lasted FOREVER!...  Didital Things  Forum     25  199281  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  71301  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  38898  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  74592  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  25416  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  14766  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  To Listen and To Hear Is To Learn...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1884  8566117  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  137780  10-24-2010
Home Page  |  Last 24Hours  | Search  |  SiteMap  | Questions or Problems | Copyright Note
The content of all messages within the Forums Copyright © by authors of the posts