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   Home » Didital Things » Really Expensive DACs? (47 posts, 3 pages)
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11-04-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 391
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 41
Post ID: 29837
Reply to: 29836
Ideon Axiom DAC
The new Ideon Axiom DAC is around $200k.
The three boxes are power supply + Clock + Converter . 
I did not have Axiom but some reported the dynamics are like horns. 
The power supply is 2000 VA. 
List of over $200k Digital playback: 
Audio Note level six R-2R DAC 
Wadax Reference DAC 
Ideon Axiom 
dCS Varese Apex  
CH Precision C10




www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
11-04-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Warsaw, Poland
Posts 654
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 42
Post ID: 29840
Reply to: 29836
Clarification
Yes, I'm sharing the DIY DAC, thinking it makes no sense to start a new thread (wrong) and this construction if attempted commercially would be rather expensive, esp. given distr. margins. I shared some construction problems for the reporting's sake, but the main conclusion is that it did not turn to sound substantially different from the couple of good known CDP's that I own. This can be of course my implementation although all has been done following the best traditions, but since my experience with digital is very small, I asked a broader question how important is DAC in the digital chain? How sensitive is the chain to the DAC changes? Common sense says it should be rather sensitive, but who knows. In the anlogue chain, for example, cartridge can be all vs nothing, so oversimplifying, the analog chain is sensitive to carts. 


Cheers,
Jarek
11-04-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,905
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 43
Post ID: 29841
Reply to: 29840
Sound Values
Jarek, I say the DAC is a big deal, at least for CDs, which makes it +/- an opportunity to use it to get the sound how you want it. The excruciating thing is trying to figure out what in the chain is homoginizing things to where you cannot distinguish or choose 1 DAC over another. Like I reported years and years ago, back when I used a 1541-based Sony (ES333?) player over some other players that offered "more information" because the way the information was presented trumped "more", until I found my present CD transport and DAC. I sympathize with your situation, as it turns out that even the effing cords and cables make for audible differences. Anyway, I am able to choose what I prefer. OTOH, if you have no preference, go for what is cheapest, easiest, most consistent, etc. Cartridges and speakers are transducers, so, yeah, changes there can be pretty obvious. And then we get back to rote electrical operation and inter-compatibility of components, not forgetting that something as complex as a DAC is actually a pile of interactive components. Cartridges are a great example of how important operating parameters can be. Sub-optimal anything can make for sub-optimal sound where "the cartridge could do better". Topology and optimizing a given topology matter in terms of sound, and they can be so manipulated, at least for those who can hear it and who care about it. I think DACs are pretty sensitve to power problems, for instance, and older threads indicate I am not the only one who finds this. I chose to "eliminate rectification", mostly to make it easier on myself. Naturally, someone else might hear it differently and deal with things differently. Up Differences!

Paul S
11-05-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Warsaw, Poland
Posts 654
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 44
Post ID: 29842
Reply to: 29841
As I thought
Thanks Paul, this is what I suspected - DAC should be a pretty big deal. My diy dac is fresh, not many hours on it. Let's see what happens after some 50h of work.
 Amir wrote:
The new Ideon Axiom DAC is around $200k.



Why not $2milion? Seriously asking. Make a golden-plated case, employ best reviewers and the sky is the limit.


Cheers,
Jarek
11-06-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,905
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 45
Post ID: 29843
Reply to: 29842
Back to Exagerated Irrelevance
It seems like very expensive audio gear generally has a short life cycle, and few listeners get to spend much time with it. As far as I'm concerened, people can spend whatever they want on gear; and they don't need my permission, of course. But I have yet to hear any sort of coherent reasoning based on evolved listening that includes discussions of sound as it serves evolved listening to serious Music, ie., beyond sound effects. Here is another chance to say that I found SACD to be horrific, and I have gone on at length about it on these pages. IMO, SACD is a great example of something that is obviously different, and it obviously puts out "more details"; but for me the overall sound is ghoulish. I admit that SACD only made me more cynical about the prospects of digital, and I have never heard a streaming system that caused me to sit up, take notice and investigate further, let alone spend a fortune on getting to it. Is this because the DAC was holding back the potential of the digital format that was tapped? Anyway, here are some very expensive DACs. I suppose many (if not most) buyers are/will be using these DACs for some sort of streaming. Do our readers really have nothing to say about "evolved streaming"? What the hell are the benefits of these very expensive DACs?

Paul S
11-06-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 404
Joined on 05-22-2009

Post #: 46
Post ID: 29844
Reply to: 29841
Dac electrical issues
 Paul S wrote:
Jarek, I say the DAC is a big deal, at least for CDs, which makes it +/- an opportunity to use it to get the sound how you want it.  I think DACs are pretty sensitive to power problems, for instance, and older threads indicate I am not the only one who finds this. I chose to "eliminate rectification", mostly to make it easier on myself. Naturally, someone else might hear it differently and deal with things differently. Up Differences!

Paul S

I agree with this. I think also they are very subject to internal EMI and RFI.  
11-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,905
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 47
Post ID: 29847
Reply to: 29844
A Second Look
Steve, agree that EMI and RFI are (very) common problems that can be especially troublesome in a DAC. Jarek, do I see bypass caps in your PS box? Did you listen without the bypass caps before adding them? Back to trannies, I think I have mentioned before that the only tranny in my own DAC is the size of a small finger ring. I will also say that I was surprised (also chastened) when I could not get a phono stage PS quiet until I used humble Hammond chokes instead of the boutique chokes I thought would sound batter. Not saying simpler is always better in terms of targeted results, but... not to mention bunched leads. For me, the early listening stages are usually difficult, after all the effort and expense. I try to remember it's all part of getting a component to work as part of the system, no different in that sense than design or breadboarding. I was ecstatic that my Loudspeakers fired up right away, after so long building them. However, I had to remove one of the woofers and enlarge the mounting hole because the driver frame was just twisted enough that the voice coil rubbed. C'est la Guerre!

Paul S
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