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01-17-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 721
Post ID: 15445
Reply to: 15444
What I am wondering.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I never heard people shunted battery with caps in order to change sound. In case of battery power unit it does not make sense as there is no HF noise some in the picture. Yes, battery has own noise but it usually no where hear what the audio circuitry have. I do not doubt the result reported by Clark but I wonder if the nature of the phenomena the he report and what I am trying to do with PP2000 is very different.
 
Anyhow, I just realized that the caps that I have 2mm taller then I need to have and they to get another caps. Here is where I ask myself what kind cap I need to get.  Being a compulsive idiot I would like to get as huge caps and I can fit in there.  Steve told me that I do not need a huge cap for what I do. Still, I am trying to specify what I need. Probably it needs to be electrolytic capacitors, shall it be polar or not? How about low ESR caps? How about low impedance caps? How about HF caps? I tend to stays with larder caps and they automatically have lower impedance and lower Equivalent Series Resistance.  How, shall I bypass electrolytic with a fast film cap? They are all the questions that I have no answer.

BTW, meanwhile tonight the new PP2000 works beyond my best expectations with any caps. I have stinky FM to sound with more dynamics and with more notes enunciation then I has 176kHz files a month back. I did have the similar effect with my old PP2000 when I “certified” it 2 years back but I do honestly feel that the new PP2000 take it way beyond where the old unit was, perhaps the addressing of the “fuzziness” did make sense.  I can’t not be objective about it as it was at least 9 month back when I have my playback up with old PP2000. The only way to confirm it would be to have Pure Power to assemble my old unit back (I did asked them to keep my old motherboard marked) but with all honestly I do not want to do it as I like too much what the new units does and I do not want to jinx it.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-18-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 722
Post ID: 15447
Reply to: 15445
Debating the PP2000 "colorations"
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, it is not really debating but “kind of” debating…

A few days back I receive emails from guy who been using PP2000 for a few month. He informed me that very much disagree with my assessment of PP2000 contribution. He explicitly asked me do not post his comments at my site. I do not now know the guy, even we exchange a few emails. Based upon his emails he most likely is from Asia. He does sound intelligent and thoughtful. In summation of what he said was his feeling that PP2000 is a regenerator that produces not usable electricity for sound as he found Sound after PP2000 is very colored. He also was not pleased with improperly fast dymicks of his PP2000 and with a slight increase of mechanical texture in sound.
 
First of all I do not know if the Asian guy uses properly operating PP2000 – he might have the accidental PP2000F versions (“F” is coming from “Fucked”) and this might bias his judgments. If however, he note the “improperly fast dymicks” and “mechanical texture” then I presume that his unit is properly operating.

If he has properly operating PP2000 then I very much disagree with his findings. In my view PP2000 does affect sound very aggressively; however a PP2000 just resolves the electricity problem, letting the following electronic components to sound in the way how they originally sound. If one does not like the result then it is not the PP2000 problem but the problem of electronics/playback that does not sound properly in context of clean electricity.  The same goes with excessive dynamics. There is no such a thing in audio as excessive dynamics. In audio no matter what we do we are near as close in dynamic range and to speed of dynamics acceleration to what live sound can do. I feel that what when people complain about excessive dynamics then they just do not have playback render harmonics consistent the dynamics rate they have.  I think this is what happening with the Asian guy: when PP2000 lifted the burqa of power line noise and dymick restrictions then it highlighted the inadequacies of his playback. There is however hidden aspect of the problem.

This brings an interesting moment of PP2000 operation that I did not cover before. The change of sound that PP2000 inflicts is large but I am not sure that change might be painlessly mitigated if a person has no means to mitigate it. I am kind of a freak of nature and have many channels and ability to control everything. So, I might shape Sound back to the state what I would like Sound to be. If I were a person who use one sealed amp and with sealed speakers then what option I would have to rectify the PP2000 positive contribution? It would not have a lot of option and my result would be in many ways accidental.

In context of my last paragraph I think it would be OK to recognize the changed in Sound after PP2000 that a person can’t mitigate as the “PP2000 own colorations”. I still feel that there is a LOT of advantages to build playback on the base of PP2000’s output, or any other output that has no intrinsic electricity problems.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 723
Post ID: 15450
Reply to: 15434
Electricity and weather.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:
Whoever follows this thread of mine note my exuberant reaction to the new fixed PP2000. What however I discover today is that for the last few days, right after the snow storm, the quality of electricity in my lines is phenomenal as well. I have absolutely clean sinusoid from wall, with less than 1% distortions. I have some DC in there but the waveform is practically perfect – I NEVER has seen it from mains.  Now is the question: does the sound is so good because the new PP2000 sound or because the PP2000 exhalents the great sound from mains? Thai is a good question, I will wait until the wall electricity will turn crap again.

The Cat

I lately report extremely positive results from new revision of PP2000 but since I got it leas then a week ago we are burden under snow and electricity is good itself. I have a few people from New England who reported to me that electricity is very good lately. So, I wonder if there is any relation between snowee weather and god for sound electricity?

A few day ago a reader of my site in response to my quote post wrote to me:

“I wrote about this several years ago but nobody seemed to pick up on it. During heavy snow storms and sometime the next day the electricity is great. Perhaps the snow either in the air or hanging from the miles of electrical wire acts as an insulator to whatever is in the air that is causing the noise. Would be nice if someone in the electrical field worked on this but improbable as they don't care and it would be a negative for the electrical industry to bring it up.”

Sure it would be great if “someone electrical field worked on this” but we know the answer. I think the reader is on something with his theory that snow and moisture cocoon miles of electrical wire and somehow changed something. I think the effect is very similar what Purest Audio design use to do in their cable, when they damped the cable with cliqued. I wonder if it possible to built an electrical equivalent of the “heavy snow storms emulator”?

Just think about it. We have a sealed box let say 2 by 2 feet with 20-30 feet power cable running through it in very thin isolator. We connect playback to this “emulator” fill the emulator belly with snow. We know that electricity does NOT flow though a metal conductor but it flows though an electrical field around conductor. Is it possible that snow has some kind of positive filtration effect to this electrical field around conductor? We know that liquid does. The POD cables are prove and I did my own experiments by damping cables with liquids. I might be possible that a low temperature is also very beneficial and this is why the snow storms work out so good. Hm, does it mean that Canada has better electricity for sound then Mexico?

It is sad that no one looks at the problem of true reason for bad and good electricity seriously and as a result we have no idea why sometimes electricity sound bad or good. In the best cases we have some companies that make more or less successful products the accidently improve sound but they do not have objectives to resolve once and for good problem with audio electricity, instead they would like to create positive publicity around this devises and keep selling the devises. It is like a doctor who instead of curing a patient form his/her disease by addressing the illness cause would devise a sophisticated drag-injecting machine, sort of a catch that patient would be obliged to ware to the rest of his/her life…

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #: 724
Post ID: 15451
Reply to: 15450
Storms and the vibrating electric value chain
fiogf49gjkf0d
"I wonder if it possible to built an electrical equivalent of the “heavy snow storms emulator”?"

The past month or so we have enjoyed several days of good electricity in Boston and last night I wrote to Romy noting that this was by far the best electricity day I have experienced. For the record, this winter has hit Boston cold weather and a few good snow storms. Last week we had two feet of snow, last weekend recorded single digit (fahrenheit) temperatures, and yesterday we had five inches of snow and a long ice storm (which likely coated all of the ariel power lines). That said, some days the this winter electricity has been only OK.

So last night's music was some jazz programing on WERS (mistakenly thought it was WHRB) and it sounded fantastic in every way; not like a jazz club or recording venue but perhaps how the musicians intended the music to be - if you are a musician you will get that if not I can't explain. That got me to thinking of the "perfect storm." That would be a good live broadcast from Boston during one of these ice storms where the entire "value chain" benefited from fantastic electricity, from recording microphones, to broadcasting equipment to the end-user's home equipment. 

My uncle recently rewired the house and he said he could feel some of the romex was "vibrating" before he rewired but had no explanation as to why. That got me to thinking about a different type of emulator that would reduce vibration. That would be to encase incoming wire from the power company in some liquid or foam compound to reduce vibration (maybe what the snow and ice are doing). Ideally, the power coming from the street would be underground so that would provide a good run of dampening in the front yard or alternatively one could insulate the inside wire somehow within code.
01-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
joaco


The Pacific Coast in Chile
Posts 30
Joined on 12-17-2010

Post #: 725
Post ID: 15452
Reply to: 15450
Storms , doctors and electricity .
fiogf49gjkf0d
hmmm this post is going ahead faster than I could analize it or I am very late at reading it . Anyway I was doing some thinking about my needs . It turns thay for my 45 amp doesn´t make any major changes the time of day and electricity , but for my digital front end is mandatory some filter. I think the amp is "immune" because of the nice circuit design ; condensator , choke and rectification (filtering) . I think this concept could be used to build something for the digital frontend ?? I do not know . But the point is that may be as all in audio high end ; comercial productos does not offer what we are heading for , and if Romy is experimenting so much with PP2000 , one of the better solutions out there may be and excuse me if you have thought it , the solution well can be in some medical or some industrial device  . We have here in Chile some guys calles "Fernadez&Fica" who build and sell to the USA and other countries some very nice productos , they are concentrating in resolving all kinds of failure on the ac wave and using very good quality material . I do not know if in the USA , (but I think that yes) some people have experienced with the very high end labs that manufacture medical filtering/protection/correction devices I have my hope on them rather than on the audio high end manofacturers . Im trying to contact these guys to see what they think , but im a little afraid they could give me their points of view only as engineers . We haven´t those kind of electric storms or heavy snowing , but I firmly think there could be a solution in some other field .
01-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 726
Post ID: 15453
Reply to: 15452
In search of philosophical stone of electricity.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 joaco wrote:
I think the amp is "immune" because of the nice circuit design ; condensator , choke and rectification (filtering) .
I think it is a mistaken view. There is nothing that be made in PS by chokes, rectification and filtering that wopuld make an amp less sensitive to electricity.
 joaco wrote:
We have here in Chile some guys calles "Fernadez&Fica" who build and sell to the USA and other countries some very nice productos , they are concentrating in resolving all kinds of failure on the ac wave and using very good quality material . I do not know if in the USA , (but I think that yes) some people have experienced with the very high end labs that manufacture medical filtering/protection/correction devices I have my hope on them rather than on the audio high end manofacturers . Im trying to contact these guys to see what they think , but im a little afraid they could give me their points of view only as engineers . We haven´t those kind of electric storms or heavy snowing , but I firmly think there could be a solution in some other field .
Yes, I also fell that a solution might come from some kind or other fields. However, it will not be the solution but rather other product that might happen to sound good. I less interested about products, I have my new PP2000 and it looks like it does well. My interest is about the reason why with seemingly identical operation one devises sound well and another sound like crap. It is very possible that the key is not in regeneration at all…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 727
Post ID: 15454
Reply to: 15450
A "heavy snow storms emulator."
fiogf49gjkf0d
What a concept!
clark
01-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 728
Post ID: 15455
Reply to: 15451
Hm, not so good.
fiogf49gjkf0d
It looks like “scooter” is correct we did have a few days of fantastic electricity. Although we live in 3-4 towns ways from each other but it look like we have some common tendencies. Today is the first day when electricity turned bad. No I do not have bad sound, the PP2000 still serves own purpose and Sound is fine but it is not as fantastic as it was during the last 5 days.
 
This is in fact as very bed sign.  It is bad sign as it indicates that PP2000 still sensitive to the sound of incoming electricity. In my recent case the PP2011 inherited the stingily good electricity – I thought that it will be the constant sound of the new PP2011 but I am not so lucky.
No, the sound of the new fixed PP2011 is not bad but today I would estimate that it is at par with my old properly working PP2000…

I think the next big move for me, for PurePower and for anybody who is interested to get most from electricity shall be to find a way to make PP2000 to be absolutely immune from original sound of power line. To add capacitance to battery and to run the PP2000 from another generator will be atop of my list to test. I still have the memory how my playback sounded during those last 5 days – it was totally out they and it clearly serves a reference how important electricity might be.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #: 729
Post ID: 15456
Reply to: 15455
Refocusing my audio efforts on optimizing electricity
fiogf49gjkf0d
Indeed, this is a reference to how important electricity might be. After last night, I almost feel as though my equipment is a much less important factor and takes a backseat to everything else. At this stage, I am thinking it makes sense to park my other audio projects for now and really focus on getting the electricity consistently as good as possible.

This is a paradigm shift and I know many have failed down this road. As a start, last fall we rewired the house from the new outside wire to the new fusebox to the dedicated audio line. I added an APC 15 power conditioner temporarily and only to protect the audio gear. Combined these have improved average electricity quality LEVEL significantly although electricity quality continues to be VOLATILE (today not too good, tonight pretty good).

Goal is to remove volatility and raise overall level to last night's level. Next week I meet with a retired power plant engineer from GE who does a lot of tinkering and I will pick his brain.
01-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 730
Post ID: 15457
Reply to: 15456
Refocusing efforts.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 scooter wrote:
Indeed, this is a reference to how important electricity might be. After last night, I almost feel as though my equipment is a much less important factor and takes a backseat to everything else. At this stage, I am thinking it makes sense to park my other audio projects for now and really focus on getting the electricity consistently as good as possible.

Ok, you got it. I felt this 15 year back but during all that time I was not able to find any solution.

 scooter wrote:
Goal is to remove volatility and raise overall level to last night's level. Next week I meet with a retired power plant engineer from GE who does a lot of tinkering and I will pick his brain. 

Please keep me updated but I do not have high expectations. I did speak with number of people from those fields in past – they do not recognize the categories by which we, the audio people, understand the quality of electricity.

Now I would like to bring a bigger picture...

Two days ago sound was spectacular, last night no so good. Mind you that both of the days have absolutely identical wave forms in the wall and identical amount of distortions. Explain that!  A reader of my site wrote to me yesterday:

“…. there is an obvious big factor at work. Most of the problems with utility power quality are caused by industrial and commercial users and their equipment - plus the utility switching and generation adjustments to accommodate them. Big snow and ice storms = dramatic reduction in industrial activity. Even industries still operating have reduced shifts and reduced processing.”

I am not sure that I agree with it as there was no change of distortion of waveform when electricity sounded good and sounded bad. Also, I do not know how in his country but in US I did not see that industrial slow down during the snow storms. I think the explanation is in more favoriteable transitions condition for electoral wires, but this sound as ridicules as  explanation that   industry got to halt what  there is 3“ or snow on the ground.

This problem with electricity need to be addressed as the electricity problems have deeply imbedded itself in all audio evaluations. Just before the snow storm, what electricity was not so good I visited local guy who show off his playback with new MF drivers. He played to me own FM recordings. It was amazingly horrible. Then I played attention that the name of the files was no mine but he added to my name. I asked what he did with filer and he explained that he used one of those horrible digital toys that extend dymick of the files.  I asked to play the original file, the sound was instantly fixed but as many FM it was very dynamically compressed.  Just for fun I was playing the same “compressed” file 2 days back, when the electric was spectacular. The file still was dymickly compressed but auditable experience was at absolutely different level – it was 10 times less auditable compressed then it was before storm and it subjectively sounded truly more dynamic then any CD we played before the storm. Interning that the guy does use the PP2000…

The mistaken concussions that we make about sound of audio that in fact the sound of electricity are enormous. Last night a sire reader sent me email:

“I have had the exact same experience you and scooter described.  This evenings listening was bad compared to a few days ago.  I am glad to read your post because all evening I have been adjusting VTA/VTF, thinking this was the reason everything was off.  All the adjustments did not help.”

How idiotic is it what a person hear bright sound begin to fucking up with VTA/VTF? Incredibly idiotic but what would you propose to the person to do if he knows that he changed nothing and that a day before he has absolutely different sound? Mind you that the person does use PP2000…

The two examples that I brought are related. First of all I do not know what version of PP2000 they have and if this units operate properly. What I said that last night it did not sound so goof I did not mean that it sounded as bad as my November wrecked regenerators sounded. The November PP2000 was unlistenable. My new PP2000 I described last night as “sound not as good” but it was in comparing to a day before when electricity in the wall itself was truly stunning. The sound was “not as good” but acceptable and not “unlistenable”.  I am sure that if I did not run PP2000 then it would be much-much worse. Still, it look like PP2000 do inherent partially the sound of the original power lines. The PS audio power plane did the same but it fucked up sound on it’s own, the PP2000 looks like provide better result but not the ultimate result.

So, if we presume that Pure Power will fix two my remaining PP2000 to the level of my current one then where I see the refocusing efforts might be? The PP2000 has already a small 470uF caps bypassing this battery. That is very good but might not (or might) be enough. I would try 60000-120000uF and will see if it makes any difference. To run one regenerator after other might be a good idea, and I would like to have option to have second regenerator not switching one. I need to reinstate my efforts and to rebuilt the Avicenna - it is linear devise and it will not have problem to work before or after the PP2000.

The biggest problem however is the testing procedure as whatever you test you are not familiar how today the electricity sound. I can say it by ears but I do not know what to measure in electricity to associate the auditable with objectively measurable. What I think however is absolutely necessary is PurePower to take their hand out of pocket and to give to us a bypass switch. The bypass switch has already existed in the unit and it works very nicely. All that is necessary is to run a two wires from the element that control this switch to a jack on the back of the unit (did I said the button on the front of the unit?). Only God knows why PurePower did not do it already. The people who sell PP2000 will have a good demonstration tool about PP2000 effectiveness. We do need the bypass switch on Pure Power.  The bypass switch will allow to monitor the quality of electricity in the wall and to build correlations. Having all my gear plagued into PP2000 I have no way to do it besides to re-plug everything. This is ridicules!I need a bypass switch on PP2000!

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Jorge
Austin TX
Posts 141
Joined on 10-17-2010

Post #: 731
Post ID: 15458
Reply to: 15457
Electricity and low temperature
fiogf49gjkf0d

I think it would have to do more with power lines conductivity under low temperatures than with industry pollution:

"Even among the materials considered conductive, there can be vast differences in how much electricity can actually pass through. In electrical terms, this is called resistance. Almost all normal conductors of electricity have some resistance because they have atoms of their own, which block or absorb the electrons as they pass through the wire, water or other material. A little resistance may be useful to keep the electrical flow under control, but it can also be inefficient and wasteful."

"A superconductor takes the idea of resistance and turns it on its head. A superconductor is generally composed of synthetic materials or metals such as lead or niobiumtitanium which already have a low atomic count. When these materials are frozen to nearly absolute zero, what atoms they do have grind to a near-halt. Without all of this atomic activity, electricity can flow through the material with practically no resistance. In practical terms, a computer processor or electric train track equipped with a superconductor would use very little electricity to perform its functions."

http://www.wisegeek.com/how-does-a-superconductor-work.htm

Or it might just be the full moon!


I live in Mexico city, so no freezing here (which is good)  I have a friend with a very good sound system that lives in one of the most populated areas in the city,  he has no power conditioning of any kind , after having tested a lot of them, he likes his power directly from the grid!  His system does sound pretty good even at daytime.  I live in a suburb where there should be less comercial and indsutrial power lines pollution and my electricity is useless during the daytime. 
We do have a lot of sun....hmmmm


01-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Lx_
France
Posts 33
Joined on 12-05-2009

Post #: 732
Post ID: 15459
Reply to: 15455
Maybe my unit is performing correctly
fiogf49gjkf0d
Those recent posts of yours are making me wonder whether my PP2000 unit is really faulty, as PurePower acknowledged on this very forum. After all, you are starting to recognize that PP is sensitive to incoming electricity in your own units. This makes several cases where we have strong suspicion (if not actually convinced already) that wall electricity still has an impact on Sound, even though PP is supposed to filter it.

In my case, difference in Sound is not outstanding, but once you know what to listen for, you can easily say when Sound is fine (no appliance on) or not. Also, I have appliances drawing several kW, and this leads to a reduction in dynamics, as well as adds micro-level noise that makes timbres a little less accurate and phrasing tends to disappear. Overall Sound is a bit more dull.

Could each of you tell me if they are using dedicated AC line to feed their PP? If not, can you hear a difference in sound when 1-2 kW are drawn by appliances in your house (typically heaters at this time of year)?

It was kind of funny to see you report excellent electricity in the snow those past few days. Last Saturday, I also experienced excellent electricity in my system. I was so hooked that I delayed having dinner for about an hour. I was wondering what did change in the system, when of course I knew I had changed nothing. I thought sound would improve with the system still warming up and the evening coming (I usually have better sound in the evening, be it for better electricity or less outside noise, I do not know), but eventually sound came back to what I am used to.

This episode of fantastic electricity gave me excellent dynamics and oooh, so good phrasing. It reminded me of the recent test I did when running on battery. Now that test was very short, because my battery is now almost 2 years old and cannot hold longer than 10-15 minutes, so I cannot be certain. But if PP on battery is indeed as good as fantastic electricity, it means that at least PP does not add noise to incoming AC. This is new for me, I suspected the charging (or some other) stage might leak into output. Of course it also means the PP is useless in case of fantastic electricity (which almost never happens for me). Now PP filtering should be improved so that input noise is removed and output sounds as on battery or with fantastic electricity.
01-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
bernie_f
Posts 10
Joined on 12-16-2009

Post #: 733
Post ID: 15460
Reply to: 15459
Black black silence...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Did you ever have a walk in fresh powder snow in the countryside? The zillions of crystals of water are doing a perfect job of damping noise - at least in the audible spectrum. Even big cities like the one i am living in are turning very quiet. One effect could be the lower noise-floor our gear has to fight against during playback. So decays and harmonics could have more chance to reach our ears without interference by ambience noise. Also don't forget what this silence and relaxation does to our mind and our capabilities to relax and let the music flow directly into our soul...
Peter Belt did a lot of research in that field. We should accept that the simple molecule of H2O in all his variations can do a lot of things scientists never thought possible. Maybe snow crystals lying around can even do something with all the hi-frequency noise filling the air and landscape surrounding us and our gear.

01-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 734
Post ID: 15461
Reply to: 15459
It is hard and simple to say.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Lx_ wrote:
Those recent posts of yours are making me wonder whether my PP2000 unit is really faulty, as PurePower acknowledged on this very forum. After all, you are starting to recognize that PP is sensitive to incoming electricity in your own units. This makes several cases where we have strong suspicion (if not actually convinced already) that wall electricity still has an impact on Sound, even though PP is supposed to filter it.

Lx, it is very difficult to correlate notes about sound over internet. Yes, I begin to recognize that PP is sensitive to incoming electricity but it is all about degree. It looks like my unit now is properly operating (dose it?) and I do sense that there is SOME degree of sensitively to incoming electricity. Sound get a bit better or worse but it all still in more or less acceptable form. The November 3 units that I had were in very different scale. They sounded not a bit better or worse but unlistenable horrible, converting all sound into boring, gray monochromic unitone. So, I guess the faulty or not faulty is about the degree of being a bit worse vs. to be the worst. As you understand it is hard to convey over internet.

 Lx_ wrote:
In my case, difference in Sound is not outstanding, but once you know what to listen for, you can easily say when Sound is fine (no appliance on) or not. Also, I have appliances drawing several kW, and this leads to a reduction in dynamics, as well as adds micro-level noise that makes timbres a little less accurate and phrasing tends to disappear. Overall Sound is a bit more dull.

Lx, I like how you describe Sound. Yes, what you describe are both characteristics of faulty unit and none- faulty unit, the key point are degree.  The faulty unit will have subdued phrasing and eaten dynamic contact even with best electricity. It will be colorless. It will be like a TV with max out brightness but with turned off saturation. Knowing what was wrong in the faulty unit there is one test that you might easy perform. Play a loud orchestral crash with bass drum.  I for 15 years use is my reference Swan Lake crash that I feel is juts perfect for me. If you feel that playback clip or sag under the crash then your PP is faulty. Make sure that it is NOT your amp or speakers are clipping however. The properly operating PP2000 shall keep your cash very clean to the very moment what the voice coils will fly out of your woofers.

There is another very easy test: the sound of bassoon-like instruments. Lasted the overtones of those woodwind instruments. The sophistication of HF overtones while they do their basic notes shall instantly give you the snapshot of the health of your PP2000.

 Lx_ wrote:
Could each of you tell me if they are using dedicated AC line to feed their PP? If not, can you hear a difference in sound when 1-2 kW are drawn by appliances in your house (typically heaters at this time of year)?

I have a dedicated lines but I use one half of my utility lines. It sound the best among all 3 chooses I have. I have no explanation for that.

 Lx_ wrote:
This episode of fantastic electricity gave me excellent dynamics and oooh, so good phrasing. It reminded me of the recent test I did when running on battery. Now that test was very short, because my battery is now almost 2 years old and cannot hold longer than 10-15 minutes, so I cannot be certain. But if PP on battery is indeed as good as fantastic electricity, it means that at least PP does not add noise to incoming AC. This is new for me, I suspected the charging (or some other) stage might leak into output. Of course it also means the PP is useless in case of fantastic electricity (which almost never happens for me). Now PP filtering should be improved so that input noise is removed and output sounds as on battery or with fantastic electricity.

Yes, the PP from battery is fantastic. The PP from AC most of the file is very close to what is from  battery. I might be that later prodaction of PP are more sensitive to electricity then before. I it very difficult to make a definitive conclusion.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 735
Post ID: 15462
Reply to: 15460
Just a hypothesis
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 bernie_f wrote:
Did you ever have a walk in fresh powder snow in the countryside? The zillions of crystals of water are doing a perfect job of damping noise - at least in the audible spectrum. Even big cities like the one i am living in are turning very quiet. One effect could be the lower noise-floor our gear has to fight against during playback. So decays and harmonics could have more chance to reach our ears without interference by ambience noise. Also don't forget what this silence and relaxation does to our mind and our capabilities to relax and let the music flow directly into our soul...
Peter Belt did a lot of research in that field. We should accept that the simple molecule of H2O in all his variations can do a lot of things scientists never thought possible. Maybe snow crystals lying around can even do something with all the hi-frequency noise filling the air and landscape surrounding us and our gear.

Yes, Bernie, good observation. I have thought about it already. Let me to expand on it. Since electricity does not flow only in conductor but mostly in electromagnetic field around conductor then we can presume that electricity flows in the H2O molecules saturated air around conductor. I think the crystals of water in air acts very different then crystals of metal in conductor. The conductor crystals are in order that describe the conductor material. So, of the crystals of conductor are “in specific order” and if some of “crystals” do resistance then they do it HARMONICALLY due to the fact that they are in order. The harmonic resistance course harmonic noise. Then we have water “crystals” that form sort of near-field jacket across witch the electromagnetic field flows. The water “crystals” are not on order and they are totally random. So, the resistance that the water “crystals” create are non-harmonic and they create none non-harmonic noise, what is not only non-auditable but also might work as some kind dither…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
joaco


The Pacific Coast in Chile
Posts 30
Joined on 12-17-2010

Post #: 736
Post ID: 15463
Reply to: 15460
Agree
fiogf49gjkf0d
 bernie_f wrote:
fresh powder snow in the countryside? The zillions of crystals of water are doing a perfect job of damping noise - at least in the audible spectrum.

I used to ski a lot in a place called "Valle Nevado" , it was only 45 minutes away from where I lived . One thing I clearly remember is that when all was calm , the silence was totally different compared to the silence you can hear being very far away on a highway or similar . Yes I totally agree with your observation . 
And for Romy , heres a little story I haven´t tell ; About 2 years ago I bought one cd player from a very fine store (USA) and bring it to Chile , as for that time was my favorite CD player I decided to buy a second unit but this time only the DAC . For that time I was experimenting with a lot of cpacitators so I opened both equipment and look into the DAC boards , they were exactly the same , every single chip , everything was identical . The only diferent thing was that in one board , either one , you could connect the transport . Ive changed 2 capacitators on each board , the same values , same brand , they where all new and very good quality . For my surprise when I connected everything back ; one of the boards sounded very different (there was a hf noise that make my ears bleed) , so I decided to change everything back . With the old caps both boards where the same , with the new ones (better ones) one board sounded very bad . I did try like 10 different caps on both and there was almost always some kind of different , being extremely big with some caps . I never took it at the level that Romy took pp2000 , but the point is that there are so many variables out there that can make 2 equal equipment sound different and that those variables im afraid we cannot measure .
01-21-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
unicon


Posts 74
Joined on 10-14-2009

Post #: 737
Post ID: 15464
Reply to: 15463
Snow
fiogf49gjkf0d
 joaco wrote:
 bernie_f wrote:
fresh powder snow in the countryside? The zillions of crystals of water are doing a perfect job of damping noise - at least in the audible spectrum.
but the point is that there are so many variables out there that can make 2 equal equipment sound different and that those variables im afraid we cannot measure .


Joaco
I really consider this theory that silence from the snow plays a major part in what we can call background noise
You are  right. But I do think we can measure with today knowledge but
For instance a very FEW studied vibration on HiFi ...and faggots selling and making HiFi never mention it Because they don't know any thing about it.
BTW in last week it was snowing here too and  meanwhile I was playing with speaker stands and all accidentally I heard the tone i never been able to hear before... it was like having a light crystal sound flowing around the speakers but it was warmly soft . and now that sound effect is gone ...sad.
01-23-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 738
Post ID: 15470
Reply to: 15457
Plans with PurePower for this week.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I am not sure how much time I will have coming week to experiment with audio but if I do then here is what I would like mote have done.

This  week PurePower will return my second PP2000, presumably fixed. If this new unit sounds identical to my current one then I am planning to load one of them with more caps. I bought Cornell Dubilier, 80VDC 15000UF and planning to use 6 of them per battery. They caps are small and have ESR .017 per unit. So, 6 of them will give me 90.000uF and ESR at .000007R.

I do have a feeling that larger caps might be effective to make PP2000 to be more input electricity independent. I also have a feeling that PurePower reduce in new unit the battery bypass that they have on board. My former unit when I disconnect battery and disconnect power cord was able to start and to “work” for 1-2 second. Obviously it was from the bypass battery that holds some charge. The new unit with no battery or power has ultra short pulse and it is it. So, ether the capacitance of the battery’s bypass cap in new unit is much lower or they use wrong cap that has to high impedance and too high leakage ands it very fast discard itself. I do not think they bleed it intentionally.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-24-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
joaco


The Pacific Coast in Chile
Posts 30
Joined on 12-17-2010

Post #: 739
Post ID: 15471
Reply to: 15470
A random thought
fiogf49gjkf0d
Last year while I was in the search for my actual DAC I came across lossless site ... and now I rememeber on their dac they are using batteries as a an alternative mode to ac . Also I found very interesting the concept that they use in their cables trying to avoid the skin effect . I do not know from my experience what implies filtering with capacitors , but from their point of view , the dielectric is the primary limitation . Beyond that has anybody prove their theory about their cables/skin effect ?? 
01-25-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
joaco


The Pacific Coast in Chile
Posts 30
Joined on 12-17-2010

Post #: 740
Post ID: 15474
Reply to: 15471
Correction
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 joaco wrote:
Last year while I was in the search for my actual DAC I came across lossless site ... and now I rememeber on their dac they are using batteries as a an alternative mode to ac . Also I found very interesting the concept that they use in their cables trying to avoid the skin effect . I do not know from my experience what implies filtering with capacitors , but from their point of view , the dielectric is the primary limitation . Beyond that has anybody prove their theory about their cables/skin effect ?? 

I correct my self , the manofacturer is "lessloss" .
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