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05-26-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 21
Post ID: 16337
Reply to: 16336
AudioTekne's English pages
fiogf49gjkf0d
Here's AudioTekne's English version

http://www.audiotekne.com/en/products_sp-system.html

http://www.audiotekne.com/en/sitemap.html

not much better but...

Cheers,
Ric


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
05-27-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 22
Post ID: 16338
Reply to: 16337
Looking at the Audio Tekne.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Yes, this English pace did not give a lot of new information.  I know nothing about the AudioTekne Company. I like that they wrote about their bass driver but I do not know how much truth and the actual results behind it. I do think that they worked in this direction and did something. For this matter I have no idea what kind drivers they use. They give no indication of it and provide only weight of the drivers – like somebody cares about it. Why they ask specific amount of dollars for this speaker but do not ask for 21.2 kilograms of money? This comments about the subduing the vibration of horns and boxed I discard as irrelevant.

Anyhow, the entire design look slice straight forward and in my view not well thought. The bass driver is direct radiator with looks like felt-impeded large port. It is what AudioTechnica does – an effective way to get more LF extension. They claim that the driver is “special”. Very possible. However, topologically this is very cheap solution. Sergey told that the AudioTekne speakers cost 300 something 000 Euros. For this money the LF section must be estranged into separate modules. The solution with bass driver sit in the same box and the rest of the speaker in my view are good for sub $40K-$50K (retail) . If somebody is willing to put more money/efforts and to get more interesting bass then it automatically imply separate bass modules with option to position them where they have to be and dedicated amplification.

MF and HF drivers sitting horizontally. This is a big labiality and of cause a main screw up. I would like to see a larger MF channels as I estimate that the existing MF would not go lower then 6-7Khz. I guess they drive the upperbass horn way too high, probably all the way to 6-7Khz. The MF and HF do not look time-aligned but I do not know where the diaphragms in those drivers are.

The upperbass channel is a classic J-horn with a compression driver. As I said they most likely drive it all the way up, using the reflected HF from the J-horn bend. I really hate that HF reflected sound and I never seen anybody get anything good out of it. I can only presume that they mask the sun 7K problem with MF and HF channel and in context of the very live show room no one recognized it. The straps to the upperbass horn are ridicules. To hold the horn month in the position it shall be much effective ways to be used. If they try to send message that the straps prevent/damps the upperbass mouth vibration then it is laughable.  All that those straps tell me that somebody needed some kind of mouth holding solution 2 days before the show started and they found it. Unquestionably it is a very elegant solution for basement-built $2000 prototype but it is not a solution for $4.000.000 commercial acoustic system.

All together I am not impressed about what I see in Audio Tekne. I would like to learn more about the drivers but it is about it….

AudioTekne2.jpg


AudioTekne3.jpg

AudioTekne4.jpg

AudioTekne5.jpg

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-27-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Serge


Russia
Posts 51
Joined on 09-21-2009

Post #: 23
Post ID: 16339
Reply to: 16338
In the corner
fiogf49gjkf0d
You can see the company's founder, Imai-san, sitting in the far left corner of the last photo.



http://hifiblog.livejournal.com/
05-27-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,644
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 24
Post ID: 16340
Reply to: 16339
Closer Look (at saving money)
fiogf49gjkf0d
Looking at the better photos, with a rear view of the LF speaker, the "felt-covered large port" is actually not the worst possibility (a quasi "IB"), depending on some things we can't see and how well that driver "likes" it.  I can also see that what I originally thought might be an anular port around the driver was in fact shadows cast by the very thick baffle.  However, the combination of the (small-ish) size of the box and the driver itself appears to be aimed at frequency response and "squashing vibration" rather than "tone".

Wonder how it would stack up to a REL Stadium...  not that I want one, but the REL is at least one of the easier LF speakers to "integrate".  Money saved, in any case.

Paul S

05-27-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
unicon


Posts 74
Joined on 10-14-2009

Post #: 25
Post ID: 16341
Reply to: 16317
Audio trash
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Serge wrote:
Silbatone used a WE horn to play in mono and a pair of their own horn cabinets for 2-channel.The very cinema sound reinforcement looking horn was, I was told, a 16B. I will post some comments about the sound a bit later.



The video I am hearing Sounds like trash...
I am pretty sure This set of shit sounds like trash in real too.(no offense)

Rgs .
05-27-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 16342
Reply to: 16341
Audio trash? Not necessarily.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 unicon wrote:

The video I am hearing Sounds like trash...
I am pretty sure This set of shit sounds like trash in real too.(no offense)

For sure with the price tag of $235K only audio trash would buy it. Still I do feel that this designed, if the speaker priced very conservatively is not trashy at all. Wait in a few years some kind of Chinese company with a good parley to western marker will do something very similar and offer the same on marker for let say $7K. If it done properly then it shall wipe out the entire mid high-end market.  I do like the new Sibatone design as a very good completion of compromiser that shall be wonderful foe the low price. This design is a direct competitor to small Wilsons – how many Watt-Poppies were sold out there?

I would be hastened to make any assumption about the sound of them. On the video they do sound like crap. The rules of the show are to pay attention only to good sound and disregard bad one. There are 1001 reasons why the new Sibatone did not sound well but in my view it shell not sound this way. In a small room, in good hand and with good drivers this new Sibatone shall do fine. Again, as $235K speaker the new Sibatone shall be considered useless  but if they find the way to make it 10 less then it mish be interesting…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-28-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 27
Post ID: 16349
Reply to: 16342
Sound at shows
fiogf49gjkf0d
There's only one thing worse than trying to assess the merits of something from what it does at a HiFi show and thst's assessing it based on a recording at a HiFi Show made using a telephone. Smile
05-30-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 16356
Reply to: 16317
A word to Silbatone.
fiogf49gjkf0d

A site visitor sent me another video of Silbatone from the last show:

Another video of the room playing barbaric music. The only missing part from this video was Joe the Archeologist , naked but wearing a ballet skirt and jumping around in open side leaps.

From the video it looks like they finished the speaker expensive. In a way it is very sad and it drove the price higher but server no audio purpose. Quite in contrary with rough textured finish those time of the horns sound better. The most absurd however was the huge bank of capacitors that they use for filters I presume. Again, it is not about the price but sane relation between price and topology. Any piece of equipment might have any price but some topologies are not useful at some condition and price is one of those conditions. The build up a buttery of caps for most likely bass driver is fine for $1000 speakers but for the speaker of $230K it is absurd.  For this price the speaker must be multi-amped and if the Silbatone do not get it then they have no idea what they are doing.  BTW, looking at the music they play at the show it very much might be the case….

The only exception that would justify Silbatone use of the assembly of 20 caps if they WE caps. It is not that WE caps are good but Silbatone use WE in the way how joke Jews use Holocaust - as the ultimate argument in their limited mind. It is very sad and extremely not stimulation. The purpose of practicing Audio is to make good audio today, not the pray and subordinate ourselves to 80 years old WE junk but to make audio of today that would over-perform what all those people did in past. I am sure that Silbatone walk do not drive cars from 1930, do not fly by planes from 1930 and do not solicit sex with women from 1930.There is absolutely nothing “special” in audio from 1930. There was a huge amount of stupidity in audio that took place between then and now but it does not elevate WE, Bell, Klangfilm, Telefinken and the rest of them to the rank of brainless reverence. If Silbatone did accumulate many WE components and they believe that they posses something valuable in their sound then why do not make audio today that would express that “something”?

I think we do and I think that best audio of today is much beyond where WE use to stay. It just might not be produced by Silbatone….

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-30-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Serge


Russia
Posts 51
Joined on 09-21-2009

Post #: 29
Post ID: 16357
Reply to: 16356
GIP Brochure
fiogf49gjkf0d
Looking through the post-Munich leaflet collection I discovered a have a SIlbatone/GIP brochure.
Take a look.

GIP_IFC.jpgGIP_p1.jpg
gip_p2.jpg
gip_p3.jpg



http://hifiblog.livejournal.com/
05-30-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Serge


Russia
Posts 51
Joined on 09-21-2009

Post #: 30
Post ID: 16358
Reply to: 16357
More scans from GIP brochure
fiogf49gjkf0d
GIP_Silbatone.jpg



http://hifiblog.livejournal.com/
05-30-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 31
Post ID: 16359
Reply to: 16358
G.I.P 9101 driver
fiogf49gjkf0d
Sergey, thank you very much for posting it.  All that I knew about GIP was that they make just WE replica which made me do not pay my attention to them. However your pages clearly indicate that they are way beyond it and they use the some good WE quietus as an inspiration and pretty much make own drivers more suitable foe modern playbacks. This is totally different story.

If so I m very much interested to learn about them. Their 9101 driver looks very interesting, thought I would like to see in high-voltage version. Do you know if they have US distribution and how can I try them. Do the GIP folks travel West? If so then would it be possible to lure them into my listening room for a day?  I do not have any temptation to change my S2 – in the way how I use it I am absolutely satisfied with it but I do have open mind about those things and I would like to see what GIP 9101 would be able to show. I doubt that 9101 driver would show something more interesting then what I am getting from my MF nowadays (there are reasons why) but I would be interested to familiarize with what GIP is trying to express with this 9101 driver.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-30-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 106
Joined on 02-14-2009

Post #: 32
Post ID: 16360
Reply to: 16356
Inferior competition
fiogf49gjkf0d

Romy wrote:
I think we do and I think that best audio of today is much beyond where WE use to stay. It just might not be produced by Silbatone….

It must be so, and its true it isn't being produced by Silbatone...but the rest were so inferior-with a couple of excemption
-that Silbatone could shine.

Regards,
Armen

05-30-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Serge


Russia
Posts 51
Joined on 09-21-2009

Post #: 33
Post ID: 16361
Reply to: 16359
Don't know much about GIP
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy, I am quite sure I know less about GIP then you... US rep? Not Joe Roberts, I hope. On the brochure they have web-site addresses, there are two of them: www.silbatoneacoustics.com and www.gip-laboratory.com. It is possible that those are two separate companies.
Funny thing that I always thought that Silbatone was a company which succeeded Loth-X. Loth-X founder was a German guy named Lothar, who lives in Singapore. He used to play Melodiya vinyl at CESs a few years ago. I think I remember him at the Silbatone room when they fist appeared at CES. But may be I'm wrong. In 2010 Silbatone had this Manger driver horn-loaded, very bad idea I think. Now they are with GIP, which seem to be based in Japan.



http://hifiblog.livejournal.com/
05-30-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 34
Post ID: 16362
Reply to: 16361
The new twist of G.I.P company. Reasons?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Of course I did go to the GIP site and I did not see in there a lot of what I would like to see. They are presented in there as a vintage audio resellers, stressing the originality and authenticity of their items. The brochure that you posted has completely different attitude, the attitude that I like quite a lot. I do not know where it suddenly comes. I know that all those people in one way or another read my site and most likely they read my criticism about the stupid vintage paranoia and moronity of replication efforts; perhaps they took is as a their marketing ploy.

There are 2 possibilities.

1)      The new 9101 driver might be the same as the old GIP 954 WE replica and the “recognition of the original qualities and improving drivers performance up to the contemporary demands” is just a literature that GIP took from my old posts.

2)      GIP always was not just replicating WE but trying to improving the things but in the environment of the today audio idiots who sell to each other  WE labels they never had guts to proclaim that they do different own drivers, not only replicate WE. Now they decided to change the literatures….

Of cause the second possibility would be nice but I wonder if it is what was going in the minds of GIP people then why the complete speakers systems  that they endorse and sell are the same replica of WE, with no efforts to made anything more intelligent?

I do not have the answers.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-30-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,644
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 35
Post ID: 16363
Reply to: 16362
Adaptation
fiogf49gjkf0d
The paper drivers, at least, look like the best of the vintage stuff.  Of course it's hard to say without hands on how GIP products have translated from Vintage WE and, judging by the literature, either the "vintage market" is irresistable to them or this is another case where the savvy "consumer" is left to his own devices as far as musically-significant adaptation and application of the available "product".  I always get suspicious when I see the words "Full Range" applied to any one driver; it seems like an intictment of the developers.  But this may just be residual from the vintage market pandering, and, in practice, one might adapt any whizzerless driver for use in whatever range it can cover acceptably, given acceptable cost/benefit in the end use, for the end user.  The overall quality looks good.  I would be quite surprised if they are any sort of a "value" in terms of price; but anything that can be put straight into use as-is and subsequently ignored is for me the height of luxury, and worth a considerable premium.

I wonder if the "banks of capacitors" are batteries for the FCs?  That seems more likely than X/O components.

Best regards,
Paul S
05-30-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,644
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 36
Post ID: 16364
Reply to: 16363
Steam Punk
fiogf49gjkf0d
After visiting the websites I am less sure of the effects of the aims of the "manufacurers", and a couple of mechanical and tactical errors in the "products" also caught my eye, not to mention the obvious subordination of - everything - to the overall aesthetic.  As usual, caveat emptor.  If the goal is to respond to and/or adopt a particular aesthetic, or the mantle of one, then by all means, make haste, since it is enough that what you see is what you get.  They do seem to have nailed something or other quite well, like the restored 4X4s, wooden boats, etc., that specialists hawk to trust fund kids and dreamer/over-achievers alike.  As for audio, per se, I am no closer to knowing about that than I was before I looked at their sites. 

Paul S
05-30-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 37
Post ID: 16369
Reply to: 16362
Truth and fiction.
fiogf49gjkf0d

It is very self-evident for kind public this clown is working. From all BS that was expressed about me I would point just two facts:

1) I never kicked Joe Roberts from my site and according to site's memebers log he keeps visiting daily.

2) I do not hate Joe Roberts for the reasons he fantasizes but rather I disrespect him because I find him being unethical simpleton, unethical at personal level (like all sales-pimps are) and simpleton in the subjects of audio.

The amount of factual lay he spread about me at various Web sites in order to propel his agenda is too explicatory. It is sad that Silbatone use that dirt as thier speak person. I guess is said a LOT about Silbatone…

The Cat

Posted at:

http://mailman.io.com/pipermail/sound/2011-May/020657.html


Joe Roberts jroberts at io.com
Mon May 30 18:24:25 CDT 2011

On 5/30/2011 2:08 PM, jc morrison wrote:
> by the way, what the fuck is up with romy the cat? is that guy
> some kind of autistic plumber or what is it that he does? can anyone
> explain to me what his shtick is and why does anyone put up with his
> crap? mystified... does anyone take him seriously?
>

Romy is probably the worst of the clueless wannabe internet audio gurus.
His personal stuff is rather primitive...about where half of the people
on this list were in 1985. Regulator tubes, and multi-amp 5 way horns
and whatnot.

Apparently, he got decent results with these entry-level experiments
that everybody does, which is surely possible, and is now convinced he
is the arbiter of all audio knowledge.

His real skill is in his ability to cultivate a league of dedicated
STASI ball-lickers who grovel at his feet. Stockholm syndrome in action.
There is no shortage of masochistic, low esteem mofos in this hobby and
Romy seems to be able to convince plenty of them that his own delusions
of grandeur have some justification in reality.

Romy is intimidated and afraid of anybody with knowledge or experience
beyond his own, which is a significantly large group, unless he can get
them on his personal expert list to call for advice and answers to posts
he can't handle himself.

Yeah he is no fun. Kind of a sad, tragic, twisted figure. Manners and
personality of an aboriginal. He can be funny in small doses but the mix
of obnoxiousness and insecurity is too disturbing for the comedy content.

I am reminded of this little ditty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFdl7982TgA&feature=related

The Cat particularly hates me because I clearly pointed out the
epistemological dead-end in his constant critiques of stuff he has not
heard--or anything other than what he endorses.

He quietly kicked me off his site...guess I (and the truth) was too much
of a threat. Yet he complains that he is attacked in forums he got
kicked out of (most of them) where he can't defend himself.

Fact is, he really sucks at analysing stuff he hasn't seen or heard but
he constantly insists on doing it, as a sort of personal specialty.
Maybe he has a good ear and maybe not, but I doubt he has really heard
that much. Worse, he doesn't think he needs to...

To this I say:  http://tinyurl.com/3clxtpk

He was on this list for a few weeks 15+ years ago and the locals drummed
him out of town because he was a disruptive fool. If he didn't have his
own site, he would have nowhere to go.

Don't worry, man. he won't go after you because he would have no clue
what your stuff is about. The Cat is a pussy to the max.

J-ROB

PS: Everything I say is illustrated in this thread, which I found
looking for Munich reports:
http://www.romythecat.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=2&postID=16356#16356

He somehow believes that G.I.P. is copying HIM...hahahaha! Like a
genuine expert would watch The Three Stooges for advice. This stuff is
so far above his head he doesn't even know this part of the atmosphere
exists!


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-31-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 38
Post ID: 16373
Reply to: 16369
Each his own
fiogf49gjkf0d
Everyone can write whatever he wants onto his own website. Personally I have no problem with that. I am old enough to decide what I think about this or that.

In a way I like that, because censorship is everywhere in the forums and from my multi year experience, the customer is always the looser there. I never found one example where a moderator wrote, the writer is right and the manufacturer shouldn't produce such Bullshit for overpriced money.

Same with the Fanboys from a Manufacturer in these Forums. Most of these full time idiots aren't able to think about what was written, because they are simply too stupid to think about a Design, instead they start personal attacks and try or do ruin someones reputation via private mails.

Thumbs up for Goodsoundclub.


Kind Regards
Stitch
05-31-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 39
Post ID: 16374
Reply to: 16373
Those literature developers…
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, I was a bit surprised to see that Joe Roberts post. My surprise was how afraid he is and how easily he might be manipulated. Also, I was surprised how accurate was my prediction that the pompoms Joe Roberts are getting his stinky marketing ideas from my site. It is not that I particularly care about the ownership of it - I give everything for free, but the poor primitive pimp is just too damn to understand what is going on. It is not first time happening and not only with him. BTW, I do not disagree with the move he made foe G.I.P., I think it is good direction to go if they do go there. I am afraid that it is not the direction but just the literatures that Joe the Plumber has developed for them.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-31-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 247
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 40
Post ID: 16376
Reply to: 16374
One half of the story
fiogf49gjkf0d
You would not ask a carpenter for an opinion on the merits and demerits of a Stradivarius, yet those who comment on playback only seem to care about technicalities (though, tellingly, not the technicalities of auditory psychophysics). The sad reality (for it would be good to hear other views) is there is nowhere else to go but this site: no one else shows any evidence of having both technical and musical understanding.
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