Thanks, Rakesh. It might be a good driver, I always like Scan Speaks.

A few things. The Scan Speak nowadays is not Scan Speak anymore, just a name and they made by someone else. Also, I would like different type of drivers. I would like 18-24 inches with moderate exertion, low resonance and none-rubber suspension. The suspension on SD-1 motors was rubber but it was different type of rubber and it was feeling like fine leather. For ULF driver the will not be able to use it – too thin. The rubber suspension on woofer is to inertial and suck a lot of overtones. As a result it would request very sharp crossover….

Anyhow, I have no idea what I would need at this point. I need to know what kind midbass I will have and then I will see what would be the best complimentary lower bass. I think another couple day of market crash and I will not be thinking about midbass horn but instead about the second job to afford them…

http://forum.dancehallreggae.com/archive/index.php?t-33718.html

Let's skip the reactions to the context and just deal with the numbers.  Yes, they are trying to play them too loud.  But
-6 dB @ 43 Hz for twin McCauley 6174s should shed some light on the (U)LF subject.  These are not toy drivers, and they are not "vintage" whimps, either.  If nothing else, this goes to show that simply putting a big driver in a big box, or cranking a small "long throw" driver in a small box is not enough for real (U)LF.  The truth is, few do real (U)LF.


Best regards,
Paul S

Possibly reflects poor use of my free time, but:
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Danley-Sound-Labs-DTS-10-Hometheater-Subwoofer-KIT-NIB-/200476677178?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ead57543a

Might never see it at this price again...


Paul S

zako wrote:

Yes i know the expierence,,,I too live in the wild,,As I open the sliding doors,,The Deer across the lake look up as Mahler symphony rolls across the water,, A startled redtailed hawk takes flight,,,  Good to be alive and witness a fresh new morning.

zako wrote:

I wold like to compose a symphony for a Hurricane

I got home today and was listening the music of my carpenter in my basemen cutting the wood for my midbass horn.  I was slowly thinking about the location of my perspective lower bass channels. The Midbass Horns, if the things go well, will cover down to 40Hz and I would like to have another 20-30Hz sealed box channels. Ironically the requirement is the same – I would like them to do the job but do not destroy the room decor – or not to be too mu8ch in sight. Suddenly it hit me what I can hide the LF channels.

Two days back I have a structural consultant inspected my project and he gave me some recommendation what in his view heed to be done. I said him that the weight of each horn inhaled in attic was 1500pounts of 3000 pounds combined. Some of his recommendations I discard but some I find need to be implemented. So, the in the room will be installed an extra vertical poll to support the horns in the middle. It will be 75” behind the listening position, not too disturbing, still leaving a plenty room on the side wide open. I will probably cover this pall with drywall. In the image below it painted with dark blue behind the listening chair.

Then I asked myself – why do not convert the space behind this new wall into a large LF channel with two L and R drivers in opposite side of the walls – shooting in kitchen and in reading room? I measured the space and I got 83 by 25 by 35 inch or around 35 sq foot. This is perfect to make two 12-14 sq foot LF channels with Aura 1808 for instance.

The idea is very elegant and the woofers will be absolutely not intrusive or visible. I need to measure this space and to see if it is a “hot” space in the room. There are some concerns however that I do not like. Firsts is that the distance between the R and L channels will be less than I would like it to be. The second is that LF souses will be BETWEEN the MF islands and this is VERY bad in my books. The woofers will be closer to listening position than anything else, to make delay for LF is not a problem however.  I need to think about it more. The idea is promising but need to be examined more.

The Cat

Romy the Cat wrote:

Ok, I think it is a good time to deal with room acoustics. All infrastructure problems are set. The Midbass horns are underway; the electricity will be investigated but as now is addressed by PP2000. Macondo and Milqs are inhaled, the system is up. It is too easily to think about lower bass channel. I think it is a good time now to think about room acoustics, particularly in conjunction with the room décor. It is very interesting subject; I will share what is going on. As now, in more or less naked room the sound of the room is not good.  Let see what can be done with it.

Black oval is my listening spot.  Red are the midbass speakers 10 feet above me. Grey are Macondo. Blue are the ceiling fans. Yellow are the sails that I am considering to hang 8 feet above the floor. I need to start looking for a right material. It shall be hairy but transparent, wish me lack…

The Cat

Romy the Cat wrote:

The only concerns in my room are ceiling and a small fraction of back wall. The back wall is very small – I am sure I will take care of it. The ceiling is a bitch however. My leading idea is to use the sails in the same way how I did in my old room – I like the result a lot.  To use sails in this room is nit more complicate as the room has ceiling pitch, ceiling fans, skylights , light-painted (sea sand color) and I would like to keep it airy qualities.

unicon wrote:

that old sails does just control <1khz reflections ... you need to control your mid bass n basic bass frequencies first.

I guess you meant >1khz reflections? Yes, it will and it is erectly what I am looking form – to subdue the HF noise.

unicon wrote:

the room i see has lotz of potentials but how much u can get from it depends on making a link between decor n acoustic ... there you can have lots of acoustic options which can fit your decors too(in my idea). anyhow make it clear whats your goal in there ... starting to correct the fundamental modes ? or just first order reflection control ? symmetrical stereo image ? watching your pool while listening ? i know your goal is to get a decent sound out of macondo... but in your room its not your will which can make it sound right its the acoustics parameters which make your room sound. first step in my idea is to do nothing acoustically and just set up your mid bass n listen and try tuning and positioning macondo with your naked room(you can add your decors in  problematic positions to control reflections and some modal control but try to get symmetric sound however) , how much you can succeed  in this level reveals ho much work needs to be done later. i can help more if u like it.

I very much would like to hear your advice or to get help from anybody else but at this point the only think that I can deal with are upper frequencies and only conditional as I do not know how how lower octaves will sound in my room..

Saying all of it I would like to pass what are my strategic ideas are. I do not like and if it possible I would like do not use any acoustic devises under 1kHz. I know it might sound ridicules to many audio people as they trained to believe in different things – bass need to be controlled. I have different ideas bout bass control. I have heard much big installations where bass traps were used. If discard the quality of bass and to pay attention only to the room acoustic properly of bass in those installations then I did not like anything I heard. You see, the bass controls is usually was done by an array of bass traps. I truly do not like this approach. The bass traps, the biggest one, have only limited effectiveness on the spectra of interest and usually have much more effectiveness in 2-3 octave above the spectra of interest. This make bass to sound less problematic but it dries out the bass’ overtones, - I do not like it. Also, the bass traps are a solution for single box speaker. People by some kind of big Wilson where all spectra is radiated from the same footprint and they have no option for creative interaction with bass positioning and crossovers. I mean those speakers are not made for rooms or with respect of the rooms but they made “as is” and then the expectation is that the room will be corrected in respect what the given speakers would demand.

I have absolutely opposite approach.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=863

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2553

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=4421

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1517

I would like do not correct my room under 1Khz but rather to optimize my Macondo to take advantage of whatever good or bad my room does. BTW, this is one of the postulates of Macondo Axioms. So, my hope is that I have a full control over 4 channels (!!!) that I will have under 1Khz then I might manage them to operate properly, in some case it might be asymmetrical) in agreement with what my specific room does. Of cause it is juts objectives and hope, the empirical practice will show what is doing on what the midbass will be done.

There is one more thing that I absolutely do not know how to predict. My entire Midbass project is standing upon the fact that my back firing midbass source will be located way above listening position and at relatively sharp angle. This shall make the midbass to fire in the cathedral ceiling and will create the situation when bass descent from ceiling or from… nowhere. I absolutely hooked on this idea - to have midbass present- everywhere. I am very confident that I will be able to tune this effect with very precise dialing the midbass crossover. I do anticipate the effect to be staggeringly interesting. However, I do not know how tolerant will be this effect and how much it have leeway for vertical repositioning of listener.  I might tune the proper sound for my listening chair but what will happen if I stand up and walk around the room. I do predict that in this case the sound on my room will disintegrate. How much will it disintegrate only time and the practical test will show. There are ways to correct this effect – for instance to use one step shaper filter for midbass crossover. I was thinking to put a motion detector in a mouth on one of the horn and if the motion detector sees a person walking then it engage one more filter that make the slope sharper. I will see how it will go as the horns are built and installed. Since I did not see it anywhere and pretty much invented the idea then I would like to name the concept as Active Motion Crossover.

The reason why I tell all of it is to demonstrate that my objective is not to modify the room but to expect-match the loudspeaker channels to wheat room is tend to do. Of course they are juts objective at this point and there are no practical successes but I am only beginning to play with the room more or less seriously. I did the very same with my older room and the result was truly spectacular for the room. I do not see why I would not apply the same successful patterns to my new room. Also, nothing is written on stone. What I express is a set of my current convictions. If reality strikes my convictions as faulty then I can but up other convictions. I do not market my convictions as a “package” and do not look them to provide benefits to nobody besides myself. I myself am very interested to challenge my convictions and to see if the ideas will work.  To set up this room will be very interesting project but at this point, with midbass underway, I feel that I have a control over the situation. I anticipate that if everything goes as I planed then it will take for me to the end of the year to make the room to sound in a way that would give me back my normal hi-fi arrogance. I am sure that it is not the only objective of this project my hi-hi-fi arrogance is very valuable to me and I would like do not lose it.