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   Home » Horn-Loaded Speakers» Omni-directional 'horny' speaker from RAAL (32 posts, 2 pages)
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  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  892584  02-16-2007
10-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 21
Post ID: 8518
Reply to: 8515
Listening from outside the room
fiogf49gjkf0d
I'd say there were fundamental issues in music reproduction which need to be got right (specifically within the design/implementation of the transducers) before worrying about the presentational niceties that omnidirectivity appears to address. Issues of tone for example which stem from the recreation of a plausible dynamic scope.

Standing outside a room where a group of musicians are playing (a string quartet, a piano trio) there are aspects to the sound heard that convey its meaning, the merit of the performance and a sense of realism far more than the exact position of each individual within the room. Even stereo is in many ways simply a contrivance which doesn't inevitably guarantee the satisfactory recreation of the illusion or necessarily convey the message within the music any more effectively.

None of these speakers seems to address those more fundamental issues first. 
10-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 22
Post ID: 8520
Reply to: 8513
What to watch it the new RAAL…
fiogf49gjkf0d

With the omnidirectivety paranoia many people might loose from attention that fact that in order to be good omnidirectional speaker the RAAL new speaker has to be just a good conventional speaker first. The new RAAL speaker (does it have a name?) as I can see is 3 way design with very restricted back chambers at MF and LF. The selection of the drivers MF and LF to work in this condition and the way how Alex used them is very interesting subject. I do not think that Alex shell be talking about it to listen if the result is appealing shell be very educational.

There is one interesting point in the new RAAL even regarding the omnidirectivety. All omnidirectional speakers I have seen had omnidirectional higher frequency range. RAAL is omnidirectional full-range. It shell produces very different result and I do not know which one. It might be also very interning idea to turn on and off (or even to using in back-phase) the back/side firing HF and MF drivers, letting the dispersion diagram of the speaker to “read” the room. I can see a remote control that would allow resetting the individual drivers in the new RAAL speaker, while the speaker is playing…

Do you what more fantasies? How about this “remote control” automatically and dynamically complies with the delta of stereo separation that sent to right and left loudspeaker. This idea combined with my idea of RT60 emulator might be a fun direction to play with.  Also it might be interesting to to make a large parabolic reflector, locate them behind or on the side of the new RAAL speakers and to see if it is possible to “spook focus” of the speaker in some atypical way.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 23
Post ID: 8521
Reply to: 8520
Positioning.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I wonder how such a speaker interacts with the room and if a Lyng/tact-something is mandatory?

As for my fantasy, why no do a vertical mirror of the things and hang their twins upside-down from the ceiling...


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
10-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 24
Post ID: 8633
Reply to: 8520
The creasy idea of Omni-RAAL.
fiogf49gjkf0d

We spoke today with Alex about his omni-directional idea. I have to admit that I did not “get” what he was trying to accomplish and I had very skeptical attitude toward to it. I was feeling that Alex moved toward to this omni idea juts because he can. To my surprise it was not exactly true and Alex had a very consciousness objectives what he was trying to accomplish with this new speaker, BTW the omni-directionality is not all that they have. I kind of overlooked behind the omni-directionality some other aspects and from Alex’s explanations of his objectives I conceded that I might understand the whole omni-directional idea a little bit too narrow. I think Alex need to do some education of public about what and how his new omni-directional version meant to be used.

I have to note that even understanding now the Alex’s objectives in the omni-domain I am not convinced that I agree with them. I would say that those views might take place and have reasonable bases but how “winning” they are it very difficult to say at this point. It is very possible that with his new speaker RAAL stir up much bigger question then it is on surface? Well, I would not spoil the trailer and let Alex to talk about his views, when he will.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-29-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Dominic
Montreal, Canada
Posts 69
Joined on 08-23-2006

Post #: 25
Post ID: 8648
Reply to: 8366
Indeed it is so. that product hasn't got much to do with it at some point.
fiogf49gjkf0d
And it makes me so sad too.
I'm just glad I'm not the only person to have noticed that no matter where you start, some laziness, if i can put it that way, takes hold and the lofty goals fur further products start to, not just be less feasible, but worse, they matter less and less as time and circumstances take their toll. I've experienced it myself in my very own commercial ventures.

I love how some outfits are so profitable and able to be run by playboyish types who retain the same verve and interest in the product/market, without needing to care about marketing in some ways.
A nice example is Teres, while they've kind of abandoned the hobbyist, they have constantly tried big new steps, despite those being more expensive.


This is really an off topic comment altogether but this point just jumped out at me.
05-12-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 10501
Reply to: 6112
RAAl’s Alex, is casting bronze base for his Omni speaker
fiogf49gjkf0d




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-12-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 27
Post ID: 11366
Reply to: 6112
Some pictures of the omni-venture
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ultimate-gear/eternally_yours/

I actually like the picture of Alex standing on his speaker more then I like the picture of a woman on couch.  A bit too well made photography for a regular AV blog.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
moreart
germany Hamburg
Posts 30
Joined on 05-13-2009

Post #: 28
Post ID: 11374
Reply to: 11366
Omni
fiogf49gjkf0d
I can´t see a horn,
in bass omnidirectional? stupid?
Did you see a measurement of the box?
look like a bigger B&O, and needs a difficult activ solution to get bass, like B&O
it is material overkill with out a win of sound.
My experience shows in listening rooms a omni over 1,5 kHz
isn´t wishable.


DIY Horns
http://www.hm-moreart.de/1.htm
less is more
08-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 11381
Reply to: 11374
I would like to listen them
fiogf49gjkf0d
 moreart wrote:
I can´t see a horn,
in bass omnidirectional? stupid?
Did you see a measurement of the box?
look like a bigger B&O, and needs a difficult activ solution to get bass, like B&O
it is material overkill with out a win of sound.
My experience shows in listening rooms a omni over 1,5 kHz
isn´t wishable.
I don’t know what stupid is in this case. I do not like the omnidirectional idea as well but I would not mind to listenen them in a well controlled by me environment. I would be very interesting about imaging from the omnidirectional loudspeakers. I do not care about their bass quality, material overkill, tone or any other things. The imaging of omnidirectional bass radiated from a single point might be also very “interesting”. This is one of the examples where it is very difficult or even impossible to predict the thighs and there is no point of reference and and you need to listen the thing. The omnidirectional German speakers that I heard were not omnidirectional-demonstrable as then has “strange” omnidirectional drivers that I found controversial.

Rgs, Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
moreart
germany Hamburg
Posts 30
Joined on 05-13-2009

Post #: 30
Post ID: 11382
Reply to: 11381
Bassomni
fiogf49gjkf0d
"The imaging of omnidirectional bass radiated from a single point might be also very “interesting”",

stupid? no not known?

Bass are between 3,4 m up to 20 m long waves, ear brain can get it after
the 4th wave, so 40 Hz is than 32 m and ~100 msec on the run, after you get it,
if i see a standart living room dimension, there is no omni left for bass.


DIY Horns
http://www.hm-moreart.de/1.htm
less is more
08-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 31
Post ID: 11383
Reply to: 11382
There is a difference between guessing and predicting.
fiogf49gjkf0d
moreart,

It is the theory that you feel comfortable with but I am not. If you compare a radiation from a single 40Hz transducer and a dipole 40Hz transducer then you will recognize the differences.  Also, you look at the 40Hz but I ma talking about a wide-bandwidth omnidirectional sound, including bass. I do not think that the Omni-RAAL bass in will be competitive with other bass-topologies from a perspective of “absolute bass quality” but I do think that it might be interesting to observe this bass in context of full-bandwidth omnidirectional sound. It would be interesting also to shut down the Omni-RAAL woofers, substituting them with conventional LF sections and to observe of the single point omnidirectional bass has any meaning in the context of total omnidirectional sound.  I can easy make surprisingly accurate predation in many cases but it is only if I have a proven to myself point of empirical references. In the case of omnidirectional sound I have no such a res and therefore I feel that listening the new Omni-RAAL might be very educational.  From what you say I conclude that you also have no empirical references to the omnidirectional results.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
moreart
germany Hamburg
Posts 30
Joined on 05-13-2009

Post #: 32
Post ID: 11384
Reply to: 11383
Omni
fiogf49gjkf0d
HI,

dipol bass, not happend in nature,
yes different listening, because of reflections,
below ~300 Hz the listening room is dominat,
you listen more the room, not the single driver.

If you look my horns, the double horns,
you can see my OMNI-bass experience.


DIY Horns
http://www.hm-moreart.de/1.htm
less is more
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  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  892584  02-16-2007
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