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  »  New  Michael Fremer Continuums…..  The PFO article...  Audio News Forum     47  62746  01-21-2006
  »  New  The Foolishness of Analog People..  That's Life...  Analog Playback Forum     22  38427  01-30-2006
  »  New   A longer turntable belt...  SP10 and the Japanese contribution to audio...  Analog Playback Forum     60  62466  02-02-2006
  »  New  My Analog Playback: the fat lady has sung..  My analog setup update....  Analog Playback Forum     9  13725  04-04-2006
  »  New  Micro Seiki SZ-1T..  I guess it's my own fault....  Analog Playback Forum     2  5332  06-10-2008
  »  New  Dynamic viscose stabilization of turntable’s platter...  Mercury mat...  Analog Playback Forum     13  7217  11-26-2008
  »  New  Active Tonearm Monitoring System...  The most idiotic idea I’ve ever seen...  Analog Playback Forum     2  3038  07-14-2009
  »  New  The HoroMusic turnable...  And the 27" long tonearm might be a Moronic as thi...  Analog Playback Forum     6  7520  08-05-2009
  »  New  Audio Note new turntable and inflation..  When I see the crap like this thing…...  Analog Playback Forum     13  7136  01-03-2010
  »  New  How much does it cost to stabilize a turntable speed?..  How much does it cost to stabilize a turntable speed?...  Analog Playback Forum     0  958  03-13-2010
07-07-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 1,187
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 81
Post ID: 7767
Reply to: 7765
New Site Posts
The Future
Hässler sonata:
A word of warning and
Random Subjects
What drives good soun
About destiny of “Hig
Western Electric repr
The circle unbroken
Not to put too fine a point on it, but...

If you stay with the conversation long enough, and perhaps if the designer is honest enough, TT designers may well mention in passing various compromises that they have been stuck with, for myriads of reasons, including costs and suppliers (with their spec's ever-changing).  Also, tweaking is just tweaking, generally speaking, and does not necessarily equate with net gains in audible performance.  Of course, if they want to get the big bucks they'll at least want to spin any changes to come across as "improvements".

It does look like it would be fairly expensive to build a one-off TT.  And I'll grant that it may well cost plenty to gear up for a TT, produce it in a re-produceable manner and get it to market in such a way that folks know it's there (and are inclined to buy it).  So, I do sympathize with the TT manufacturers.  But this does not mean I am just waiting for their offerings on their terms.

Meanwhile, who wants to pay a ton for something with no justification for its cost?  The "engineering" talk I am familiar with is, IMO, mostly something for the prospective buyer to get traction on and then cling to; port of entry and refuge.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-07-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
mumford
Posts 10
Joined on 06-10-2008

Post #: 82
Post ID: 7768
Reply to: 7766
Round and round it goes.
 ducatirider wrote:

  tw spent decades perfecting his material choice for the plinth.



And yet, it is still not "perfect."  So what have they been doing during these decades besides going around in circle?  The only perfection created are slogans/wants/lies invented by the  marketing people to convince people that they are some superior being by having one on their trophy stand.

If you look at human technologies, especially anything that has to do with audio.  You have something really great and innovative and then different people came up with different applications in the next few years.  And then nothing.  For the next several decades, engineers are just running around in circle.

We are still using triodes.  Invented when?


01-20-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 6,247
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 83
Post ID: 9468
Reply to: 40
New Site Posts
The Future
Hässler sonata:
A word of warning and
..and of cause someon
Progress: back chambe
The smart reasons for
Variable resonances
Random Subjects
Shock-absorbing tube
I'm omnivorous... am
The 5-ways from Germa
About TTH characteris
Mozart, Piano Concert
The Rachmaninoff's la
Who owns what in FM
K-Stereo Ambience Rec
Audiotism: cable elev
RAAL “Water Drop” twe
Tchaikovsky’s “Pathet
Dream Hi-Eff Speakers
Verify that you sourc
Some thoughts about M
Bad, bad, bad 1812 Ov
I think taste played with those Italians a bad joke

http://www.angelislabor.com/gabriel.html

"A true reference turntable equipped with a base that can accept up to four arms. The materials used include aluminum, bronze and stainless steel. The turntable and arm are totally decoupled at several points - beneath the base, beneath the turntable and beneath the pin, using a magnetic field calibrated and controlled with great precision. 
 
 Type: magnetic levitation 
 Transmission: double Belt in special material  
 Thrust block: Magnetic levitation with absolutely no friction or noise. The tolerance levels of the mechanical parts are incredibly low.   
 Power supply: Three speeds, 33 – 45 – 78 rpm with fine regulation. The motor is controlled by two electronic cards, the first controls the speed electronically and the second card reduces the motor vibrations by means of electrical adjustment of the phase of the motor itself. 

 The Gabriel Arm is made in Modena, Italy in the same factory where they construct precision parts in highly technical alloys for Ferrari. The arm is a very sophisticated achievement of which we are very proud. The Gabriel turntable and arm require absolutely no antiskating and in fact have no provisions for it. The turntable system is composed of three parts - the table and base for one to four arms; the 13-inch arm; and the cartridge. The Gabriel frame consists of two cone sections created by overlapping bronze with aluminium. These sections are joined by an aluminum rod. The first cone supports the turntable bearing, the second the arm and its mount. The assembled unit is quite tall and heavy: over 30 kilos. In terms of appearance, this is one of those analog monuments which catches everyone's eye the first time they see it.

Having to produce a top-class record player trying to get away from the constraints of traditional construction, we had to devise a completely new suspension system. And it is truly disconcerting. Gabriel is a magnetic suspension record player. The repulsive force is used not merely as a suspension system but also to support the turntable. This does away with the need for the traditional pinion thrust-block ball bearing bathed in oil, which is the fundamental critical part for any traditional record player. In practice, the turntable spindle unit is lifted by the force of the magnets while the centering system consists of self-lubricating brass bearings.

The 12+12-pin motor is synchronous, constrains the rotational speed to the mains frequency and uses an external power supply. This outboard unit has a twin control circuit: the first is based on the constant frequency signal generated by a quartz and amplified by an active solid-state circuit coupled to the motor via output transformer and operating as the speed controller. The second control circuit is passive and regulates the timing between the motor windings, compensating for rotational irregularities and reducing the vibrations created by the running motor. Finally, the motor support with its very heavy base and a series of flexible isolators reduces remaining vibrations further. An equally innovative approach was used for the design and creation of the arm. First, the joint system, as for the record player spindle, is a magnetic suspension system as well. To optimize the performance of the arm, three fundamental areas were focused on: considerable actual length to reduce radial tracking error; reduction of joint friction; and resonance damping."

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 6,247
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 84
Post ID: 9980
Reply to: 40
New Site Posts
The Future
Hässler sonata:
A word of warning and
..and of cause someon
Progress: back chambe
The smart reasons for
Variable resonances
Random Subjects
The Expressive Techno
Conchita Supervia
Milq: Starting the pr
Do not buy Brand and
How to manage the dig
Baseline measurements
Alicia De Larrocha, B
The best TT is revealed!

Courtesy to Klangton from Germany.

http://klangton.blogspot.com/

KlangTon_Turntable.jpg


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 419
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 85
Post ID: 9984
Reply to: 9980
Turntable for the rest of us...
Seriously, could this be the World's Best Turntable?
07-25-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 6,247
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 86
Post ID: 14111
Reply to: 40
I do not know if I like it.

There is a fusion in contemporary turntables: to make platters and tonearm bases separated. I am not an expert but in my ignorant common sense I do not think I like it. For instants take a look at a German table:

http://www.montegiro.de/en/lusso.html

...it has a tonearm base that is absolutely disconnected from the TT. Furthermore it is not hard bolted to foundation but sitting on some kind decoupling spikes. Well, I presume that it is strong enough to maintain the tonearm geometry stable but still: if the TT system experiences some kind ULF impact then platter and tonearm base will response to it differently. I do not like it.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-26-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 135
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 87
Post ID: 14114
Reply to: 14111
Random Subjects
Maria Callas’s Glory
The Real Total Horn
Dream Hi-Eff Speakers
Built to order
 Romy the Cat wrote:

There is a fusion in contemporary turntables: to make platters and tonearm bases separated. I am not an expert but in my ignorant common sense I do not think I like it. For instants take a look at a German table:

http://www.montegiro.de/en/lusso.html

...it has a tonearm base that is absolutely disconnected from the TT. Furthermore it is not hard bolted to foundation but sitting on some kind decoupling spikes. Well, I presume that it is strong enough to maintain the tonearm geometry stable but still: if the TT system experiences some kind ULF impact then platter and tonearm base will response to it differently. I do not like it.

The Cat


For the Ultimate you would have to try a customized RB UNICO -> http://www.ruiborgesturntables.com/Ingles/turntables.htm
(Up to now) it's been a high-end-rape-free manufactufaturer...
But after this post I am left wondering which famous rapist will score it first.

Cheers,
Ric


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
Page 5 of 5 (87 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2 3 4 5
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Michael Fremer Continuums…..  The PFO article...  Audio News Forum     47  62746  01-21-2006
  »  New  The Foolishness of Analog People..  That's Life...  Analog Playback Forum     22  38427  01-30-2006
  »  New   A longer turntable belt...  SP10 and the Japanese contribution to audio...  Analog Playback Forum     60  62466  02-02-2006
  »  New  My Analog Playback: the fat lady has sung..  My analog setup update....  Analog Playback Forum     9  13725  04-04-2006
  »  New  Micro Seiki SZ-1T..  I guess it's my own fault....  Analog Playback Forum     2  5332  06-10-2008
  »  New  Dynamic viscose stabilization of turntable’s platter...  Mercury mat...  Analog Playback Forum     13  7217  11-26-2008
  »  New  Active Tonearm Monitoring System...  The most idiotic idea I’ve ever seen...  Analog Playback Forum     2  3038  07-14-2009
  »  New  The HoroMusic turnable...  And the 27" long tonearm might be a Moronic as thi...  Analog Playback Forum     6  7520  08-05-2009
  »  New  Audio Note new turntable and inflation..  When I see the crap like this thing…...  Analog Playback Forum     13  7136  01-03-2010
  »  New  How much does it cost to stabilize a turntable speed?..  How much does it cost to stabilize a turntable speed?...  Analog Playback Forum     0  958  03-13-2010
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